Just having a little think (always dangerous, I know) about this one.
If you were to assume that the infrastructure problems could be solved. How would you go about working out what the best capacity would be?
Have owners ever reached out to fans to survey how many additional season tickets would be purchased, should a new stadium with xyz facilities be built?
I wonder if you could fund some of it by getting people to pre-purchase these ST'S at a discount for upto 5 seasons?
All academic but wondering if this would solve both problems of:
A: Understanding exactly how many extra people would show up
B: Up front funding for the project
Advance sales and the initial level of interest would very much depend on what division we're likely to be in!
If all the infrastructure can be sorted (a huge ask!), then longer-term, we should aspire for 40,000.
In the past, the general rule of thumb was that Pompey's urban area, support, capacity and record attendance was bigger than scum's in the ratio of 5:3. Suppose the Pompey economy has suffered more than scum's over the past 60 or 70 years so let's go for a ratio of 4:3 - hence a target capacity of around 40,000.
Even Brighton can fill their 30,000 ground and traditionally, they're even smaller than scum!
one thing to bear in mind. Few of the ethnic minorities bother with football, so if your city has a large immigrant population, your crowd potential tends to shrink.
Football catchments everywhere are so much bigger than the city itself.
Take Leicester as an example. The indigenous population is in a minority, yet LCFC plan to expand their stadium to 40,000.
Historically they're also a 'smaller' club than Pompey.
Lifetime season tickets were popular with some so five years at a fixed cost should do well.
Big jump potentially after five years.
Population of Hampshire is approximately 1,875.000 so a 40,000 capacity is just over 2% of the population.
I have always maintained that everyone who currently goes to Fratton Park on average 17000 knows off one other who would go if they knew they could get tickets easily enough and more importantly can access the ground and there lies the big problem. No where is there on Portsea the space to put a 40,000 capacity ground to have the rail and road infrastructure to support it. But without doubt I have always thought we can easily with a successful team support a 35k to 40k crowd. In my opinion the golden opportunity was the goods yard and Portsmouth Council should have moved heaven and earth to have secured it for the club.
I wouldn't build any stadium bigger than 35000 capacity for us but with a design where it could be increased with demolishing a stand. I am not convinced we would fill that unless the team was doing really well. Nothing kills an atmosphere like having a half empty stadium.
Have posted before that we have a bigger potential than Sunderland - and that was before their barcode rivals were bought by the multi-billionaires! OK, their historical achievements place them among the traditional top 10 clubs in English football, but apart from a Cup win in 73, they've underachieved and won diddly squat in the past 80 years! Given our catchment area and lack of competitive rivals, we really should have so much more ambition. When Pompey play at home there's no other professional fixture between Bournemouth and Brighton, Pompey and London! A successful Pompey should tap into the huge wealth in the GU postcode area to fill hospitality boxes which would effectively help subsidise ticket prices for the locals.
The Stadium of Light has poor accessibility. It can take well over an hour to drive to a dual carriageway after a big game, Sunderland station is on a backwater line and the Stadium of Light metro station has a fraction of the capacity of Fratton station. What Pompey (club and council) lack is a visionary leader who is prepared to challenge the status quo and drive the agenda to rebuild this great club of ours.
Talking driving out after the game. Should clubs look at driving as the main way to arrive? Seems the entire move now will be away from cars. In which case in town near a station is far better. I get planning a walkway off of the main road, although widening the pavement might be a cheaper and simpler option, especially if it included a cycle/pedestrian lane. Perhaps with a move to Goldsmith/Devonshire Avenue becoming one way. I've never understood why Fratton is incapable of handling large footfall. Combined with using the new much larger car park at the park and ride. Cannot be beyond the realms of organisation to get buses to drop off close enough to Fratton Park for a brisk walk.
Back in the day when I first started going to Fratton without my old man I used to take the Gosport ferry and there would be buses the other side just going to Fratton. Also there would be on occasions buses running direct to Fratton from Gosport.
(18-10-2021, 07:29 AM)Bluebob Wrote: [ -> ]Back in the day when I first started going to Fratton without my old man I used to take the Gosport ferry and there would be buses the other side just going to Fratton. Also there would be on occasions buses running direct to Fratton from Gosport.
Dead right Bob, fleets of buses charging a flat fee from all points of the city would be a great idea on match days. If they could finally get their act together and put in direct access to Fratton station, that would sort the problem.
I still reckon a 35,000 capacity is more than enough for the foreseeable future.
There’s nothing more depressing than a small crowd rattling around in a big stadium.
(18-10-2021, 07:59 AM)exgaffer Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 07:29 AM)Bluebob Wrote: [ -> ]Back in the day when I first started going to Fratton without my old man I used to take the Gosport ferry and there would be buses the other side just going to Fratton. Also there would be on occasions buses running direct to Fratton from Gosport.
Dead right Bob, fleets of buses charging a flat fee from all points of the city would be a great idea on match days. If they could finally get their act together and put in direct access to Fratton station, that would sort the problem.
I still reckon a 35,000 capacity is more than enough for the foreseeable future.
There’s nothing more depressing than a small crowd rattling around in a big stadium.
I'd agree on 35k being more than enough for the foreseeable.
To get there the club would need to do lots of work getting into schools and offering freebies to the kids & the same could be said about getting into larger employers in the area and doing similar. It has shown a willingness to do this with the Uni, so what about the residents? All a bit moot of course until/unless the ground capacity increases.
I take my grandchildren but I'm sure I'm not the only one who faces some concerns from parents about behaviour and language at any football ground. Part of any development we probably need a really family friendly section, including enforcement of staying seated in that part of the ground. Nothing worse for a young child than to go and not be able to see anything.
Actually my granddaughter always asks to go in the Fratton End, which is difficult as getting seats together is tough in a ground that is close to sold out especially as the booking system allows booking that leaves lots of single seats.
One reason why I'm in favour of the mid week cup games, especially in the school holidays.
Thats a good point hammie. I wonder how much attendance is affected by the crappy booking system leaving loads of empty single seats. How hard can it be to programme something that reduces residuals. The code is already written, just copy tetris!
(18-10-2021, 03:14 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ]Thats a good point hammie. I wonder how much attendance is affected by the crappy booking system leaving loads of empty single seats. How hard can it be to programme something that reduces residuals. The code is already written, just copy tetris!
We regularly book for the local cinemas and the Kings Theatre, mayflower etc.
Every single one has a simple computerised check in place. If you leave a single seat where there are other options it shoves you along or refuses the booking.
If the Kings can afford it then surely Pompey can?
(18-10-2021, 03:54 PM)Hammie Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 03:14 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ]Thats a good point hammie. I wonder how much attendance is affected by the crappy booking system leaving loads of empty single seats. How hard can it be to programme something that reduces residuals. The code is already written, just copy tetris!
We regularly book for the local cinemas and the Kings Theatre, mayflower etc.
Every single one has a simple computerised check in place. If you leave a single seat where there are other options it shoves you along or refuses the booking.
If the Kings can afford it then surely Pompey can?
The Kings doesn't have season ticket holders in fixed seats in more than 60% of the seats.
(18-10-2021, 04:07 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 03:54 PM)Hammie Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 03:14 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ]Thats a good point hammie. I wonder how much attendance is affected by the crappy booking system leaving loads of empty single seats. How hard can it be to programme something that reduces residuals. The code is already written, just copy tetris!
We regularly book for the local cinemas and the Kings Theatre, mayflower etc.
Every single one has a simple computerised check in place. If you leave a single seat where there are other options it shoves you along or refuses the booking.
If the Kings can afford it then surely Pompey can?
The Kings doesn't have season ticket holders in fixed seats in more than 60% of the seats.
Not sure i follow, Deep. Do you think its too tricky technically speaking? Or do you mean the single seats are wedged between ST holders?
(18-10-2021, 04:43 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 04:07 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 03:54 PM)Hammie Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 03:14 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ]Thats a good point hammie. I wonder how much attendance is affected by the crappy booking system leaving loads of empty single seats. How hard can it be to programme something that reduces residuals. The code is already written, just copy tetris!
We regularly book for the local cinemas and the Kings Theatre, mayflower etc.
Every single one has a simple computerised check in place. If you leave a single seat where there are other options it shoves you along or refuses the booking.
If the Kings can afford it then surely Pompey can?
The Kings doesn't have season ticket holders in fixed seats in more than 60% of the seats.
Not sure i follow, Deep. Do you think its too tricky technically speaking? Or do you mean the single seats are wedged between ST holders?
It would not be impossible to enforce the same checks on ST seats. Even just asking if they would mind moving along one seat. The North stand are definitely getting new seats and positions with the new lower build, so start there!
(19-10-2021, 08:24 AM)Hammie Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 04:43 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 04:07 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 03:54 PM)Hammie Wrote: [ -> ] (18-10-2021, 03:14 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ]Thats a good point hammie. I wonder how much attendance is affected by the crappy booking system leaving loads of empty single seats. How hard can it be to programme something that reduces residuals. The code is already written, just copy tetris!
We regularly book for the local cinemas and the Kings Theatre, mayflower etc.
Every single one has a simple computerised check in place. If you leave a single seat where there are other options it shoves you along or refuses the booking.
If the Kings can afford it then surely Pompey can?
The Kings doesn't have season ticket holders in fixed seats in more than 60% of the seats.
Not sure i follow, Deep. Do you think its too tricky technically speaking? Or do you mean the single seats are wedged between ST holders?
It would not be impossible to enforce the same checks on ST seats. Even just asking if they would mind moving along one seat. The North stand are definitely getting new seats and positions with the new lower build, so start there!
A agree, with a bit of thought they could sort it out. My mates and me bought our seats in the FE in a block originally but with changed circumstances (infirmity, lack of dosh, people moving away etc.) there are now some ‘holes’ in that block. Those seats do get sold when it’s a capacity match but are usually empty or filled by someone moving on the day. A bit if shuffling could easily be done.
It would only need STH's to 'tick a box' online if for any reason ( even last minute) if they couldn't make a match. There where 5 empty seats around me ( all within a metre) and all belonged to STH's.
(20-10-2021, 09:11 AM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]It would only need STH's to 'tick a box' online if for any reason ( even last minute) if they couldn't make a match. There where 5 empty seats around me ( all within a metre) and all belonged to STH's.
Is the system still in place where making your seat available gets a £5 credit towards next season's ST. Seemed a reasonable idea to me and i always made my seat available when we could not go.