Some good opinions. General view is they've done well.
For me the stadium must come before promotion, get that right with a higher capacity and we will sellout every week. A better stadium will attract more fans too.The infrastructure comes first.
Fwiw I actually think we still can get the playoffs this season.
They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
(16-02-2022, 05:58 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
Deepblue do you think that after the h and s works to fp have been completed, that we will see real progress re capacity increase with the fratton end and or the North stand?
I want to see the stadium ready for championship football. We need at the very very least 25,000 for that.
(16-02-2022, 05:58 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
Spot-on DeepBlue, unfortunately it still won't stop people moaning!
(16-02-2022, 03:06 PM)Lentil_Soup Wrote: [ -> ]Although it has been really tough going recently, overall I would say 6/10 - It is a Marathon not a sprint. I would like to see more transparency about what are the actual long term plans for the stadium/academy (if there are any) are.
I thought there was a pretty good outline of stadium plans from Cullen early this season?
designing the new lower to allow a top to be added
talking about building behind while open
I think he suggested a lot of other snippets that were there but kept things quiet like buying up land and houses to prevent a bidding ar type of thing.
(16-02-2022, 06:08 PM)BlueArmy Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 05:58 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
Deepblue do you think that after the h and s works to fp have been completed, that we will see real progress re capacity increase with the fratton end and or the North stand?
I want to see the stadium ready for championship football. We need at the very very least 25,000 for that.
The recent h&s requirements have come as an unexpected driver and may delay other work that would increase capacity, but the intention to increase capacity is still there. Certainly the NS work will increase capacity there (mores the pity legroom-wise)
25k would be nice but I totally disagree that it is a pre-req for Championship football. We have proven before that we can survive in the championship and in the premier on less than that. Gate money is a ever decreasing percentage of income the higher up the ladder you go. Plenty of other clubs have done the same. So yes it helps, but it is not a pre-req.
(16-02-2022, 05:32 PM)Pangus Wrote: [ -> ]What does concern me are their apparent budget restrictions as far as building a team capable of challenging for promotion is concerned. Thats worrying. For me the present squad is nowhere near strong enough to take into next season to mount a challenge. 0/10 for ambition.
Its no good aiming for increased capacity to say 25000 if we haven't got a team capable of attracting that sort of attendance.
The present squad won’t be here next season so I wouldn’t worry about that.
Some interesting views.
If we are ever to become self sustainable and to really compete, we need a capacity of at least 25,000 but preferably 30,000. We need a stand with corporate facilities to generate extra income.
Fp with a 20,000 capacity will never be big enough if we really want to compete in
the championship or the prem. Pompey as a club and city need s bigger capacity. We have to be more self sustainable and the club and many many fans have said this.
The h and s works to fratton Park should be just the start to improving fp and Tornante know this.
I think we will see a big capacity increase in the next few years. Its vital we do see a healthy capacity increase at fratton park.
(16-02-2022, 05:32 PM)Pangus Wrote: [ -> ]What does concern me are their apparent budget restrictions as far as building a team capable of challenging for promotion is concerned. Thats worrying. For me the present squad is nowhere near strong enough to take into next season to mount a challenge. 0/10 for ambition.
Its no good aiming for increased capacity to say 25000 if we haven't got a team capable of attracting that sort of attendance.
But it was gonna piss off a lot of people if we got a team into the championship and we had a reduced capacity.
Investment in the ground is far more important and shows far more real ambition than spending a few extra quid on players.
Spending huge amounts of cash on the team has absolutely no guarantee of success.
Just ask Sunderland or Ipswich.
(16-02-2022, 11:08 PM)Cunninglinguist Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 05:32 PM)Pangus Wrote: [ -> ]What does concern me are their apparent budget restrictions as far as building a team capable of challenging for promotion is concerned. Thats worrying. For me the present squad is nowhere near strong enough to take into next season to mount a challenge. 0/10 for ambition.
Its no good aiming for increased capacity to say 25000 if we haven't got a team capable of attracting that sort of attendance.
But it was gonna piss off a lot of people if we got a team into the championship and we had a reduced capacity.
Investment in the ground is far more important and shows far more real ambition than spending a few extra quid on players.
Spending huge amounts of cash on the team has absolutely no guarantee of success.
Just ask Sunderland or Ipswich.
Great Post. Completely agree. The ground must come first.
(16-02-2022, 07:41 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 06:08 PM)BlueArmy Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 05:58 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
Deepblue do you think that after the h and s works to fp have been completed, that we will see real progress re capacity increase with the fratton end and or the North stand?
I want to see the stadium ready for championship football. We need at the very very least 25,000 for that.
The recent h&s requirements have come as an unexpected driver and may delay other work that would increase capacity, but the intention to increase capacity is still there. Certainly the NS work will increase capacity there (mores the pity legroom-wise)
25k would be nice but I totally disagree that it is a pre-req for Championship football. We have proven before that we can survive in the championship and in the premier on less than that. Gate money is a ever decreasing percentage of income the higher up the ladder you go. Plenty of other clubs have done the same. So yes it helps, but it is not a pre-req.
Deep, it's going on almost 20 years since we had a season in the championship and weren't relegated. The world is a different place now. For someone who bangs on about following the Eisners 'sustainability'plan, you must know that you need more than 20,000 punters to foot the bills.
(16-02-2022, 05:58 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
They should have employed better managers then.
I bet they never thought of that. Who would you have suggested?
(17-02-2022, 12:03 AM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 07:41 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 06:08 PM)BlueArmy Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 05:58 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
Deepblue do you think that after the h and s works to fp have been completed, that we will see real progress re capacity increase with the fratton end and or the North stand?
I want to see the stadium ready for championship football. We need at the very very least 25,000 for that.
The recent h&s requirements have come as an unexpected driver and may delay other work that would increase capacity, but the intention to increase capacity is still there. Certainly the NS work will increase capacity there (mores the pity legroom-wise)
25k would be nice but I totally disagree that it is a pre-req for Championship football. We have proven before that we can survive in the championship and in the premier on less than that. Gate money is a ever decreasing percentage of income the higher up the ladder you go. Plenty of other clubs have done the same. So yes it helps, but it is not a pre-req.
Deep, it's going on almost 20 years since we had a season in the championship and weren't relegated. The world is a different place now. For someone who bangs on about following the Eisners 'sustainability'plan, you must know that you need more than 20,000 punters to foot the bills.
The main difference between now and twenty years ago is that gate money is now a smaller percentage of income than it was then. I'm not saying bigger crowds are not useful, but they are not the be all and end all.
(17-02-2022, 11:08 AM)Cunninglinguist Wrote: [ -> ]I bet they never thought of that. Who would you have suggested?
I'd go for Gavin McCann right now. But why do need to suggest somebody, it's the chief exec's job.
(17-02-2022, 11:57 AM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]The main difference between now and twenty years ago is that gate money is now a smaller percentage of income than it was then. I'm not saying bigger crowds are not useful, but they are not the be all and end all.
Deep, I'd agree with that statement if Pompey had anything like a half decent matchday corporate scheme in place but what they do have is laughingly bad compared even to Burton Albion and Northampton Town, so I'd say that presently large attendances
are the be all and end all for the club. Until the ground improvements are completed and, hopefully, there's some focus on both corporate and non-matchday income, then the club needs every body it can get through the gates.
(17-02-2022, 11:08 AM)Cunninglinguist Wrote: [ -> ]I bet they never thought of that. Who would you have suggested?
Well Wilder, Warnock, Holloway……..
To name but three
.
I think the names Cook, Jackett, Cowley(s) stand up pretty well against those three
(17-02-2022, 02:03 PM)exgaffer Wrote: [ -> ] (17-02-2022, 11:08 AM)Cunninglinguist Wrote: [ -> ]I bet they never thought of that. Who would you have suggested?
Well Wilder, Warnock, Holloway……..
To name but three .
The first two of which are/were in championship employment so where do you turn next when they do not apply ?
p.s I would not touch Holloway with a barge pole ... entertaining pundit but long past it as a manager. It's 10 years and four failures since he last had any success at Blackpool.
(17-02-2022, 02:37 PM)Tomsk Wrote: [ -> ]I think the names Cook, Jackett, Cowley(s) stand up pretty well against those three
You are joking about the Cowleys right?
(17-02-2022, 11:57 AM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (17-02-2022, 12:03 AM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 07:41 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 06:08 PM)BlueArmy Wrote: [ -> ] (16-02-2022, 05:58 PM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]They've provided a top 6 playing budget all the time they have been here, and increased it year on year and coughed up more when requested by the manager.
It's not a lack of ambition, it's an ambition to make any progress sustainable and not reliant on a bottomless money pit.
Deepblue do you think that after the h and s works to fp have been completed, that we will see real progress re capacity increase with the fratton end and or the North stand?
I want to see the stadium ready for championship football. We need at the very very least 25,000 for that.
The recent h&s requirements have come as an unexpected driver and may delay other work that would increase capacity, but the intention to increase capacity is still there. Certainly the NS work will increase capacity there (mores the pity legroom-wise)
25k would be nice but I totally disagree that it is a pre-req for Championship football. We have proven before that we can survive in the championship and in the premier on less than that. Gate money is a ever decreasing percentage of income the higher up the ladder you go. Plenty of other clubs have done the same. So yes it helps, but it is not a pre-req.
Deep, it's going on almost 20 years since we had a season in the championship and weren't relegated. The world is a different place now. For someone who bangs on about following the Eisners 'sustainability'plan, you must know that you need more than 20,000 punters to foot the bills.
The main difference between now and twenty years ago is that gate money is now a smaller percentage of income than it was then. I'm not saying bigger crowds are not useful, but they are not the be all and end all.
I would strongly contest that we survived in the top two flights, on our gate receipts.
We badly overspent.
Strip away the tv money and that would leave a lot of clubs in the mire.
Our gate receipts were about 10% of our income when we were in the prem and we survived well for 7 years. We didn't even overspend as much as most in the division, in fact we were not even in the top half of the table for debt, but we were the only ones caught out by the banks pulling the plug on their owners. Our collapse was purely and simply caused by Gaydamak senior becoming persona non grata with the banks. If they had not demanded their money back in such a short period of time we would never have needed to attract the sharks and piranhas that followed and stripped us dry.
It's a gross over-simplification of what happened to say we overspent. Every premier club overspends.
And this is the crux of the issue for me. I'm all for building a sustainable club that pays for itself. What I am not for is sitting on your arse for 5 years and doing the absolute bare minimum to keep the ground open and only have ambitions of getting capacity back to what we already know is too small.
The whole point is of being a billionaire is that you can invest in these sorts of projects to improve the value of your asset in a shorter time period to the average joe.
We don't need someone who knows nothing about football if they're not willing to make the proper investment required to get the clubs infrastructure up to scratch.
There are 2 strategies the eisners could have chosen:
1: Stay in League 1 and have a cheap wage budget. Get cracking on the stadium quickly and then in 5 years you have a stadium ready to fill when you move up the leagues.
2: Put together a larger playing budget to get promoted to the championship. Keep that budget flat in the championship and cream off the extra 6-10M you get in the higher league. Survive or get relegated, doesnt matter, you've got the money to pay for the infrastructure.
The eisners have done neither of these, which is why we sit 10th in L1 after FIVE YEARS with a capacity of 14,000!!! And I'm supposed to be happy with this situation?
they looked into the ground thing, stay or move, properly before starting work. The most important thing if we stay, is the work on the north lower which is designed to allow for a new top half as and when needed/affordable. I'm pretty sure they have already said that might include a hotel doubling as exec boxes.
I'm not completely convinced that ROKO is not going to be the new stadium site with Rugby camp taken in
I think it's certain we will stay at fratton park and I'm convinced the eisners will build on the North stand and fratton end. Slow progress at the moment I agree.
Having a capacity of 16200 now and 20000 in two years is not good enough but I'm convinced they'll continue with fratton parks redevelopment quickly after the current works to increase capacity.