(10-06-2022, 11:47 AM)scumslayer Wrote: [ -> ]Our downfall is that there is a minimum economy and competency required in order to compete for promotion and we are deficient in both.
We are killing less and therefore eating less with our eat what we kill policy.
We also are useless at hunting.
Totally!
When did we last actually hunt and kill something i.e. sign a player and sell for more?
Lowe, Clarke & Webster? Lowe and Clarke under Cook.
So what we kill (very generous, as it doesn't have much to do with what the club does), is what us fans put in and the tv money (agreed by the league).
I think Jackett's aim and focus was on promotion, so generally went for more experienced, and what he hoped were proven players to achieve it (Curtis aside). So not much chance of sell on value.
If our league 1 budget is still outside of the top 6, even with 16,000 fans, then we really need to start sharpening the arrows and get hunting, to improve it.
Seems to me the biggest issue by far now is whether we can in a couple of decent strikers, everything else is secondary.
We have the basis of a good squad, spend most of whatever is left in the kitty on strikers, and the last bits on a few back-up, loans, non-leaguers as squad players. Then it will be up to the Cowleys to prove whether or not they have what it takes. We'll know by Christmas.
(11-06-2022, 08:04 AM)Peter_Mellor's_Got_No_Hair Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 11:47 AM)scumslayer Wrote: [ -> ]Our downfall is that there is a minimum economy and competency required in order to compete for promotion and we are deficient in both.
We are killing less and therefore eating less with our eat what we kill policy.
We also are useless at hunting.
Totally!
When did we last actually hunt and kill something i.e. sign a player and sell for more?
Lowe, Clarke & Webster? Lowe and Clarke under Cook.
So what we kill (very generous, as it doesn't have much to do with what the club does), is what us fans put in and the tv money (agreed by the league).
I think Jackett's aim and focus was on promotion, so generally went for more experienced, and what he hoped were proven players to achieve it (Curtis aside). So not much chance of sell on value.
If our league 1 budget is still outside of the top 6, even with 16,000 fans, then we really need to start sharpening the arrows and get hunting, to improve it.
Webster came through our youth set-up so we didn't sign him. We signed Wallace from non-league though so he does.
Curtis might one day go for more than the 100k we paid for him, and we might make a profit on Harness too but you are right that the buy cheap, sell high part of the 'eat what you kill' policy has not really worked yet, mainly because Jackett ignored it.
But also because it is a flawed policy now that players can see ther contracts out and become free agents which makes getting a fee for anyone much harder.
3 x Strikers - O'Brien, Hirst, Another. CD - Carter if we can get back on loan. Jacob's at No. 10 with younger back up.
I reckon we need 7 players.
1 GK ( maybe 2 if we're going to have 3 on the books)
1 CB
2 CM's ( at least one attacking)
3 Strikers
(11-06-2022, 07:14 AM)mike hunt Wrote: [ -> ]I love this time of year, with all to play for , & optimism for the coming season but will that optimism be founded or another pipe dream? IMHO we do need a couple of strikers, a midfield maestro & another central defender . whether that materializes is the question!
I think it’s everyone’s opinion surely? And of course we will get them along with a keeper.
(11-06-2022, 11:19 AM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]I reckon we need 7 players.
1 GK ( maybe 2 if we're going to have 3 on the books)
1 CB
2 CM's ( at least one attacking)
3 Strikers
I'd have though Steward would do as a third keeper
RB is surely a higher priority than another centre back, we only have Mnoga atm.
(11-06-2022, 11:30 AM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2022, 11:19 AM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]I reckon we need 7 players.
1 GK ( maybe 2 if we're going to have 3 on the books)
1 CB
2 CM's ( at least one attacking)
3 Strikers
I'd have though Steward would do as a third keeper
RB is surely a higher priority than another centre back, we only have Mnoga atm.
Freeman??
Freeman wasn't very good last season. Hopefully he won't need to be used very much.
We definitely need 1 at least 1 RB. We also need 1 RW, 1 or 2 CB's, 1 CM, 1 GK and 3 or 4 strikers.
Pre season starts in 9 days. But everything is fine. They're all lined up.
(10-06-2022, 07:46 PM)Pompeyg100 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 07:31 PM)farq2 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 06:46 PM)Pompeyg100 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 06:19 PM)Northstandgeorge Wrote: [ -> ]I dont think there is any wage cap now other than against turnover. Relegated clubs this year will not have any advantage apart from Derby who are likely to have a larger turnover. Im sure we will have a higher turnover than Barnsley or Peterborough. Whether there is any desire from the owners to spend based on our turnover is open to debate.
They’ve been pretty clear that we will spend what we can afford to. We are competitive and the manager needs to be the difference. Cook spent a fortune on wages last year and failed as we did under KJ. Football isn’t decided by how much you spend.
unfortunately in general it is, as in life you get what you pay for.
It’s not though as we, Ipswich and Sunderland have proved season after season in L1. There’s examples up and down the leagues year after year. Leicester didn’t outspend the rest of the Prem when they won the title. It just isn’t the case.
Leicester have one the premier league once unfortunately they are the exception. The premier league has been won the other 29 times by clubs spending loads of money. Of the clubs who were promoted this year Wigan and Sunderland almost certainly had bigger wage bills. If you dont spend the money chances of success are that much more difficut to acheive
(11-06-2022, 12:02 PM)Northstandgeorge Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 07:46 PM)Pompeyg100 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 07:31 PM)farq2 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 06:46 PM)Pompeyg100 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 06:19 PM)Northstandgeorge Wrote: [ -> ]I dont think there is any wage cap now other than against turnover. Relegated clubs this year will not have any advantage apart from Derby who are likely to have a larger turnover. Im sure we will have a higher turnover than Barnsley or Peterborough. Whether there is any desire from the owners to spend based on our turnover is open to debate.
They’ve been pretty clear that we will spend what we can afford to. We are competitive and the manager needs to be the difference. Cook spent a fortune on wages last year and failed as we did under KJ. Football isn’t decided by how much you spend.
unfortunately in general it is, as in life you get what you pay for.
It’s not though as we, Ipswich and Sunderland have proved season after season in L1. There’s examples up and down the leagues year after year. Leicester didn’t outspend the rest of the Prem when they won the title. It just isn’t the case.
Leicester have one the premier league once unfortunately they are the exception. The premier league has been won the other 29 times by clubs spending loads of money. Of the clubs who were promoted this year Wigan and Sunderland almost certainly had bigger wage bills. If you dont spend the money chances of success are that much more difficut to acheive
Sunderland, us and Ipswich have been up their with the biggest wage bills every season in this league!!
Deep blue is Steward not the young ex Palace/ NI youth keeper? If so, he’s been let go.
Why eat what we kill when we can eat what we grow?
Our future is all about the academy and has been for years.
Until we have more faith, commitment and vision in this area, we will struggle in L1.
(11-06-2022, 12:47 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]Deep blue is Steward not the young ex Palace/ NI youth keeper? If so, he’s been let go.
That was Oliver Webber. Steward is from our youth setuip.
(11-06-2022, 12:47 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]Deep blue is Steward not the young ex Palace/ NI youth keeper? If so, he’s been let go.
No he's one of our own!
(11-06-2022, 11:48 AM)bluebollox Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2022, 11:30 AM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2022, 11:19 AM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]I reckon we need 7 players.
1 GK ( maybe 2 if we're going to have 3 on the books)
1 CB
2 CM's ( at least one attacking)
3 Strikers
I'd have though Steward would do as a third keeper
RB is surely a higher priority than another centre back, we only have Mnoga atm.
Freeman??
Oh yes.
He's very forgettable !
He wasn't rated good enough last season for first choice so can't see that changing a year older. Mnoga fancies himself as a RCB so we definitely need a decent right back through the door.
Especially now that Hull are interested and a fee would be involved.
(11-06-2022, 01:24 PM)Gerry Hatrick Wrote: [ -> ]Why eat what we kill when we can eat what we grow?
Our future is all about the academy and has been for years.
Until we have more faith, commitment and vision in this area, we will struggle in L1.
Even if we sort the Academy out tomorrow.
I would seriously hope that we are not relying on new academy products to get out of league 1. By the time they grow up I hope we would be in the Champ!
(11-06-2022, 10:04 AM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (11-06-2022, 08:04 AM)Peter_Mellor's_Got_No_Hair Wrote: [ -> ] (10-06-2022, 11:47 AM)scumslayer Wrote: [ -> ]Our downfall is that there is a minimum economy and competency required in order to compete for promotion and we are deficient in both.
We are killing less and therefore eating less with our eat what we kill policy.
We also are useless at hunting.
Totally!
When did we last actually hunt and kill something i.e. sign a player and sell for more?
Lowe, Clarke & Webster? Lowe and Clarke under Cook.
So what we kill (very generous, as it doesn't have much to do with what the club does), is what us fans put in and the tv money (agreed by the league).
I think Jackett's aim and focus was on promotion, so generally went for more experienced, and what he hoped were proven players to achieve it (Curtis aside). So not much chance of sell on value.
If our league 1 budget is still outside of the top 6, even with 16,000 fans, then we really need to start sharpening the arrows and get hunting, to improve it.
Webster came through our youth set-up so we didn't sign him. We signed Wallace from non-league though so he does.
Curtis might one day go for more than the 100k we paid for him, and we might make a profit on Harness too but you are right that the buy cheap, sell high part of the 'eat what you kill' policy has not really worked yet, mainly because Jackett ignored it.
But also because it is a flawed policy now that players can see ther contracts out and become free agents which makes getting a fee for anyone much harder.
I'm counting any player that signs for us, as a player who signs for us. I don't mind where we get them from. But i forgot Connor Chaplin in my list.
Curtis and Harness reportedly had interest, and had that been true interest, at their best we could have made profit on Curtis. Harness maybe, but i think it was reported at the time that we paid a fair amount for him.
I would take issue with it being a flawed policy though. You are correct to say its harder with shorter contract lengths, but if they are good enough, they will receive interest. Kenny's older, more proven pro's were less likely to receive interest, than exciting younger prospects
In the 2021/22 season, 16 out of the 24 league one clubs sold players, at an average of £900k (total income i.e. may have been more than 1 player sold). Interestingly (perhaps), that included all 6 of the top 6. I appreciate i'm relying on reported stats
Another million income a season would give a very useful advantage.
I'd like to see us really concentrate on the scouting side. Easier said than done, but given that we know our spending policy, and the current state of the academy, i think its the quickest route out of this league.
This why we need a development U23 side , to bring on our own youth as well as progressing younger lower league players we buy.
(12-06-2022, 02:26 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]This why we need a development U23 side , to bring on our own youth as well as progressing younger lower league players we buy.
Next season we play Exeter who are reaping the harvest of a long-term vision and long-term investment in that bridge between youth and senior professional levels. From what I saw of their squad in the Papa Johns last season, they look to have some very exciting players coming through.
(12-06-2022, 04:57 PM)Gerry Hatrick Wrote: [ -> ] (12-06-2022, 02:26 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]This why we need a development U23 side , to bring on our own youth as well as progressing younger lower league players we buy.
Next season we play Exeter who are reaping the harvest of a long-term vision and long-term investment in that bridge between youth and senior professional levels. From what I saw of their squad in the Papa Johns last season, they look to have some very exciting players coming through.
I wonder what "grade" their academy is rated.
but agree the missing bit is the link between youth and 1st team. That seems where our big investment is needed.
Does seem that these days clubs are expected to spend a fortune on extra facilities that were not needed previously to run a reserve team.
Kenny referred to needing an EXTRA training pitch an extra staffing, coaches medical teams. Did Harry have all of that in place in the prem?