This morning's football headlines include the latest outburst from Klopp, saying how Luton fans should be ashamed for their "tragedy chanting" during last nights game. Well Mr Klopp, and indeed all Liverpool supporters, here's the thing....
34 years after Hillsborough, the tragic events of that fateful day still divide opinion. Was it 100% the fault of the police, or did the actions of some Liverpool fans also contribute in some way to the disaster? Whatever the arguments, for me it's about respect for those who lost their lives and I would never join in any form of chanting on such a matter. Full stop.
Then we have the Liverpool fans who claim that successive Government policies have desolated their community. Mmmm.....really? Communities need to evolve and change with the times, and the fact that Liverpool didn't adapt after it's glory days when it's port was a hub for World trade faded, or when the factories in the area were strangled to death by striking Unions in the 70's / 80's, is hardly the fault of Government (if it was then why have Cities like Manchester, Bristol and others prospered?)
However, because of these events Liverpool fans deem it acceptable to boo the National Anthem....even when the late Queen passed away, and in so doing they show absolutely no respect for their Country, or indeed those who fought in WW1 / WW2 to preserve their / our freedom.
Well Mr Klopp / Liverpool fans, if you want the rest of the Country to show you respect, then start demonstrating some yourself. If not, then don't complain or be such bloody hypocrites when other treat you with similar disrespect.
I must admit to being surprised at how well this town has survived. The running down of the Navy and the Dockyard, combined with the move of Zurich and Pall out of the city should have been difficult to recover from, but house prices suggest otherwise. What everybody does for a living now, I have no idea.
(06-11-2023, 09:32 AM)Mostlysunny Wrote: [ -> ]This morning's football headlines include the latest outburst from Klopp, saying how Luton fans should be ashamed for their "tragedy chanting" during last nights game. Well Mr Klopp, and indeed all Liverpool supporters, here's the thing....
34 years after Hillsborough, the tragic events of that fateful day still divide opinion. Was it 100% the fault of the police, or did the actions of some Liverpool fans also contribute in some way to the disaster? Whatever the arguments, for me it's about respect for those who lost their lives and I would never join in any form of chanting on such a matter. Full stop.
Then we have the Liverpool fans who claim that successive Government policies have desolated their community. Mmmm.....really? Communities need to evolve and change with the times, and the fact that Liverpool didn't adapt after it's glory days when it's port was a hub for World trade faded, or when the factories in the area were strangled to death by striking Unions in the 70's / 80's, is hardly the fault of Government (if it was then why have Cities like Manchester, Bristol and others prospered?)
However, because of these events Liverpool fans deem it acceptable to boo the National Anthem....even when the late Queen passed away, and in so doing they show absolutely no respect for their Country, or indeed those who fought in WW1 / WW2 to preserve their / our freedom.
Well Mr Klopp / Liverpool fans, if you want the rest of the Country to show you respect, then start demonstrating some yourself. If not, then don't complain or be such bloody hypocrites when other treat you with similar disrespect.
You'll probably get told off for not posting this in the "general" section.
For what is worth, scousers have a huge persecuting complex. Totally innocent at Hillsborough (tick). The only part of the country not to dicked by central government (tick). And I assume never singing offensive tunes to Man Ure fans (tick). I always put the booing down of the anthem down to a) it winds others up and b) there's a fair degree of Irish that claimed asylum there.
Presumably he'll want the Luton game replayed as well. That fixture list is going to get very congested!
Actually Klopp shares a strong Scouse characteristic in that he only gets hysterical when he doesn't get his way.
(06-11-2023, 09:32 AM)Mostlysunny Wrote: [ -> ]This morning's football headlines include the latest outburst from Klopp, saying how Luton fans should be ashamed for their "tragedy chanting" during last nights game. Well Mr Klopp, and indeed all Liverpool supporters, here's the thing....
34 years after Hillsborough, the tragic events of that fateful day still divide opinion. Was it 100% the fault of the police, or did the actions of some Liverpool fans also contribute in some way to the disaster? Whatever the arguments, for me it's about respect for those who lost their lives and I would never join in any form of chanting on such a matter. Full stop.
Then we have the Liverpool fans who claim that successive Government policies have desolated their community. Mmmm.....really? Communities need to evolve and change with the times, and the fact that Liverpool didn't adapt after it's glory days when it's port was a hub for World trade faded, or when the factories in the area were strangled to death by striking Unions in the 70's / 80's, is hardly the fault of Government (if it was then why have Cities like Manchester, Bristol and others prospered?)
However, because of these events Liverpool fans deem it acceptable to boo the National Anthem....even when the late Queen passed away, and in so doing they show absolutely no respect for their Country, or indeed those who fought in WW1 / WW2 to preserve their / our freedom.
Well Mr Klopp / Liverpool fans, if you want the rest of the Country to show you respect, then start demonstrating some yourself. If not, then don't complain or be such bloody hypocrites when other treat you with similar disrespect.
So, you agree with Klopp’s statement?
Not sure what ‘the thing’ was, in the end.
(06-11-2023, 09:32 AM)Mostlysunny Wrote: [ -> ]This morning's football headlines include the latest outburst from Klopp, saying how Luton fans should be ashamed for their "tragedy chanting" during last nights game. Well Mr Klopp, and indeed all Liverpool supporters, here's the thing....
34 years after Hillsborough, the tragic events of that fateful day still divide opinion. Was it 100% the fault of the police, or did the actions of some Liverpool fans also contribute in some way to the disaster? Whatever the arguments, for me it's about respect for those who lost their lives and I would never join in any form of chanting on such a matter. Full stop.
Then we have the Liverpool fans who claim that successive Government policies have desolated their community. Mmmm.....really? Communities need to evolve and change with the times, and the fact that Liverpool didn't adapt after it's glory days when it's port was a hub for World trade faded, or when the factories in the area were strangled to death by striking Unions in the 70's / 80's, is hardly the fault of Government (if it was then why have Cities like Manchester, Bristol and others prospered?)
However, because of these events Liverpool fans deem it acceptable to boo the National Anthem....even when the late Queen passed away, and in so doing they show absolutely no respect for their Country, or indeed those who fought in WW1 / WW2 to preserve their / our freedom.
Well Mr Klopp / Liverpool fans, if you want the rest of the Country to show you respect, then start demonstrating some yourself. If not, then don't complain or be such bloody hypocrites when other treat you with similar disrespect.
Sunny, just to clear up your first point Hillsborough should not divide opininions any more. There have been detailed extensive investigtions into what happened and legal proceedings that concluded without any doubt that the Liverpool fans did not contribute to the deaths. Those that cling on to believing that they did must have their own reasons for continuing to believe the lies told by the police & the Sun - probably that they just don't like scousers. But the facts are no longer in any doubt.
But yes, they do have a victim complex. Probably because they were the victims of a massive miscarriage of justice over Hillsborough that took years to unpick. The fact that they have been the cause of other problems (Heysel, munich chants, general fan disorder) over the years does not suddenly wipe out the injustice of what the authorities did to them after Hillsborough.
It shouldn't need Klopp to condemn any 'tragedy chanting' by Luton fans (what was it about?) the whole football world should be doing that, but I can see no reason for criticising him for doing it.
Always the victims but conveniently forget Hysel
(06-11-2023, 11:34 AM)BilltheCat Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong Forum.
Apologies....you're quite correct that I should have posted in the "General forum". My mistake.
When we lost on pens at Villa, I commented to a few of their fans that they were lucky tonight (after Mac hit the bar)
Their response was "umpteen championships and Euro trophies, lucky?" Which rather missed the point. and they definitely did not have a sense of humour.
And having been directly responsible for getting their neighbours blocked from playing in Europe, they still kept blaming everyone else but themselves.
As regards the "run down" of their City. They refused to modernise, we on the other hand had a council who opened the continental ferry port which subsidised the rates by many millions over the years. Invited in IBM. We, being southern, were also prepared to move and commute to work.
I don’t remember them blaming everyone else but themselves, for their actions at Hysel. It’s also a bit of a sweeping statement to make about the entire contingent of Liverpool fans. I’m glad we’re not judged by everyone else on the actions of our idiot minority.
Where did we move to and commute to and how did that help to revive the fortunes of Portsmouth?
I have to say that the regeneration of the Kings Docks is quite impressive and they appear to have further plans to do more.
But how long has it taken to happen.
As regards commuting for work, there were a whole raft of stats, what is now a few decades ago that showed how southerners were prepared to commute long distances to work , while few northeners would even consider it. Their docks were held back by archaic practices while other new players took the trade. Our dockyard lost a lot of work for similar reasons but other higher tech industries took their place to at least some extent.
I’d be interested to see those stats.
(07-11-2023, 07:17 PM)Cunninglinguist Wrote: [ -> ]I’d be interested to see those stats.
from thirty odd years ago, good luck with that.
From an aging memory they showed the average distance that agency workers were willing to travel.
For a national agency.
Down South it was over 20 miles, up north, less than 5.
I was teaching Business Studies at the time so we used to get that sort of info from some business body.
(07-11-2023, 09:08 PM)Hammie Wrote: [ -> ] (07-11-2023, 07:17 PM)Cunninglinguist Wrote: [ -> ]I’d be interested to see those stats.
from thirty odd years ago, good luck with that.
From an aging memory they showed the average distance that agency workers were willing to travel.
For a national agency.
Down South it was over 20 miles, up north, less than 5.
I was teaching Business Studies at the time so we used to get that sort of info from some business body.
Don’t you turn up with yer dubious unfounded claims!
ONE agency? How many employees is that based on? Were the wages high enough, up north, to justify the extra travel costs?
My Dad is a Scouser. I still have family there. My Dad was born there and grew up there. Pompey is 100% my team. But I have a fleeting
bit of nostalgia for Liverpool.
Liverpool fans prided themselves in those days for getting into grounds foc. Jump the gates or ram then. I saw it myself at Fratton. . The guilt is not one sided. I take no satisfaction in saying that. Terrible day, along with Bradford. Bradford game, many of us were in Huddersfield. Two awful events. So sad.