TrueBlueArmy Forums

Whatmough is being tested for Covid today but apparently it's just a precaution. Chances are he had some other virus and is okay now. Assuming he's okay for Swindon on Boxing Day, who would you put alongside Raggett? After last night, I would go for Rasmus. There were a couple of nervy moments but overall I thought he had his best game for us. The possibility of him deciding to leave in January because of lack of game time would mean having to recruit another untested centre half. I think he's done enough to keep his place. If he stays we know we have two excellent players in that position.

Aren’t both Raggetti and Rasmus left-footed?

(19-12-2020, 08:34 AM)dsmg Wrote: [ -> ]Aren’t both Raggetti and Rasmus left-footed?

Raggett is right-footed and moved over last night to accommodate Rasmus on the left. Regardless, both looked comfortable in those positions.

He had his best game last night, but was perhaps lucky to get away with a couple of positional errors and some of his headed clearances were a bit weak getting no distance, and that is something Whatmough excels at.

He should never replace Whatmough unless Jack needs a rest (and no sign of that yet) or is injured. To weaken your side to keep a player at the club who is not as good as your first choices makes no sense. If he wants to return to the bench in Denmark rather than take his chances here his judgement is as poor as his opinion of himself is high because he should realise there is every chance of Jack picking up another injury at any time and that's his best chance of first team football at either club.

But he was good last night, and for a defence with half its first choice 4 missing to keep a clean sheet in a game like that shows the strength of the squad this year.

Apart from a badly sliced clearance in both Halves Rasmas didn't look out of place last night, and I think he is improving.

(19-12-2020, 09:53 AM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]He had his best game last night, but was perhaps lucky to get away with a couple of positional errors and some of his headed clearances were a bit weak getting no distance, and that is something Whatmough excels at.

He should never replace Whatmough unless Jack needs a rest (and no sign of that yet) or is injured. To weaken your side to keep a player at the club who is not as good as your first choices makes no sense. If he wants to return to the bench in Denmark rather than take his chances here his judgement is as poor as his opinion of himself is high because he should realise there is every chance of Jack picking up another injury at any time and that's his best chance of first team football at either club.

But he was good last night, and for a defence with half its first choice 4 missing to keep a clean sheet in a game like that shows the strength of the squad this year.

Not sure I agree with that logic about the back four strength Deep. Last year we had Burgess and Seddon, this year we have Rasmus and Pring.

For all the plaudits that Burgess earned, we have definitely stepped up a level this year - though it was impossible to see in the first two months. 
While we have scored a few more goals, the biggest difference has been in conceding seven fewer goals than at the same stage last year. This has brought us a points haul of 35 after 19 games compared to 28 last year. 

 Being top is unimportant at this stage but the encouraging thing is that we seem to be improving all the time.

What's so encouraging this season is the positive approach that Jackett has finally decided to take, the attacking intent at pace with Harness and Williams pushed forward. They have both been a revelation and we are not only scoring goals but creating loads of chances as well.  At last the penny has dropped for Jackett - perhaps he's realised that its his last throw of the dice otherwise he will be out of a job at the end of the season.  The lesson was there for all to see at Blackpool when he went all defensive with no attacking threat, going for a draw, and got beat 1-0

Positive test for jack so sits out at least next two games. Gives the dane his chance to show us what he can do. Sounded like he was OK last night.

Whatmough has been the best CB at this club since he was 17. Better than Wallace, better than Clarke, better than anybody at the club in the last 2 - 3 seasons. His problem is staying injury free.

>
Not sure I agree with that logic about the back four strength Deep. Last year we had Burgess and Seddon, this year we have Rasmus and Pring. <

No if anything we're stronger ask Deep.

(19-12-2020, 01:07 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]Whatmough has been the best CB at this club since he was 17. Better than Wallace, better than Clarke, better than anybody at the club in the last 2 - 3 seasons. His problem is staying injury free.

I don't think Wallace ever played CB, did you mean Webster.

(19-12-2020, 01:08 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]>
Not sure I agree with that logic about the back four strength Deep. Last year we had Burgess and Seddon, this year we have Rasmus and Pring. <

No if anything we're stronger ask Deep.

Yes I'd rather have

Johnson  Whatmough Raggett Brown  with Rasmus, Bolton, Downing, Mnoga & Pring in reserve 

than 

Bolton Burgess Raggett Brown with McRorie, Downing & Haunstrup in reserve (and admittedly Seddon to come later). 

IMO we have more strength in depth this year, but we don't have to rely on our opinions to settle it ... the facts are we are conceding more than 20% fewer goals than last year and to do that yesterday with half the first choice defence out tneds to support my depth argument.

(19-12-2020, 02:11 PM)hilsea12 Wrote: [ -> ]

(19-12-2020, 01:07 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]Whatmough has been the best CB at this club since he was 17. Better than Wallace, better than Clarke, better than anybody at the club in the last 2 - 3 seasons. His problem is staying injury free.

I don't think Wallace ever played CB, did you mean Webster.

I would rather have had Seddon,Jack,Burgess and Brown, instead of Seddon raggett,burgess and Brown ( or any of this seasons combination) but unfortunatley Jack was injured after 1 game and we had a weaker back 4 because Raggett had to replace Jack. This season we are still have an improved Raggett ( he couldn't get worse TBH) and Jack back fit. Because we haven't replaced Burgess properly (Raggett was Burgess replacement,that is Rasmus) the club as a hole is slightly weaker at CB. I know Deep you will say Jack didn't play last season,however, he was still at the club. Raggett was a loanee because we weer short and Downing was meant to replace Clarke ( well done Kenny).
Anyway I still believe we haven't improved player wise in defence,it's just that we're playing better tactics and the pressure has been taken of the defence.

(19-12-2020, 05:06 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]I would rather have had Seddon,Jack,Burgess and Brown, instead of Seddon raggett,burgess and Brown ( or any of this seasons combination) but unfortunatley Jack was injured after 1 game and we had a weaker back 4 because Raggett had to replace Jack. This season we are still have an improved Raggett ( he couldn't get worse TBH) and Jack back fit. Because we haven't replaced Burgess properly (Raggett was Burgess replacement,that is Rasmus) the club as a hole is slightly weaker at CB. I know Deep you will say Jack didn't play last season,however, he was still at the club. Raggett was a loanee because we weer short and Downing was meant to replace Clarke ( well done Kenny).
Anyway I still believe we haven't improved player wise in defence,it's just that we're playing better tactics and the pressure has been taken of the defence.

There's so many things wrong in that post .... 

Raggett was signed to replace Clarke as the left sided CB 
Downing was signed to be better than Burgess as right sided CB and at the time of signing them there was 
 no assumption that Jack would be in contention (just hope) 
 
That's why he started the season with the Downing/Raggett combination before having to concede that Burgess was better than Downing.  And how can you say Burgess has not been replaced properly ? Whatmough is better IMO.  
 
And Jack was not injured after one game. Where did you get that from ? He was injured in February FFS. 

And how could you have Seddon & Brown in the same team ? They both play left back and never played in the same team.

According to the 2019-2020 stats jack played 1 game.
Jack was not a replacement for anybody,he was already here albeit injured,all he did or would've is reclaimed his spot back from Burgess after injury
There is also no reason why a Jack/Burgess pairing wouldn't work ( you don't need a left footed CB), that's why I think a Jack Raggett partnership is weaker, purely because Burgess is better than Raggett ( Jack is a better CB than them all).
oops,I'll give you the Seddon/ Brown bit

Anyway we're going to need a decent CB IF Rasmus goes in Jan.

Adam Webster started off at Right Back and didnt play a great deal of games at CB. It's been an amazing transformation from there to the Premier League.

All 3 have their pros and cons. Ragget is pretty fearless and strong in the air at both ends (set plays are often with him as the target man). Rasmus appears quite comfortable on the ball. Jack seems to be the most balanced of the 3. I'm sure he'll go back to Ragget and Jack as his preferred two.

I'm surprised that opposition managers don't have Ragget put under more pressure when he is in possession. He's so uncomfortable with the ball at his feet.

(20-12-2020, 03:28 PM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]According to the 2019-2020 stats jack played 1 game.
Jack was not a replacement for anybody,he was already here albeit injured,all he did or would've is reclaimed his spot back from Burgess after injury
There is also no reason why a Jack/Burgess pairing wouldn't work ( you don't need a left footed CB), that's why I think a Jack Raggett partnership is weaker, purely because Burgess is better than Raggett ( Jack is a better CB than them all).
oops,I'll give you the Seddon/ Brown bit

Anyway we're going to need a decent CB IF Rasmus goes in Jan.

He played a game towards the end of season after getting fit. He was not available before that. 

And this season he has taken the place that Burgess had last season. That means he has replaced him in the team, why how is that hard to understand ?? 

Yes, if Rasmus goes we will be in the same position as we were last season with just Downing in reserve (admitttedly Bolton & Naylor as possibles too), and with Jack's fragility that would not be ideal.

I thought you two had both given up this spat

(20-12-2020, 05:44 PM)dsmg Wrote: [ -> ]I thought you two had both given up this spat

I had, but he restarted it.

Oh no he hadn't. (This is the panto thread, innit?)

I know I'm sorry, it's the release clause all over again, except it's 'when is a replacement not a replacement'. I am giving up tho as I always promised my mum that I wouldn't argue with idiots. Sorry mum.

I'll just add my penny worth to this heated debate. Jack is head& shoulders our best defender & dangerous at Sept pieces, Ragget has been pretty dependable & scored a couple of goals from set pieces. Rasmus is a very talented left footed youngster who needs to play more games so we keep him after January but that's Kenny's job to convince him he has a future at the club. Downing is really surplus to requirements & needs to be replaced Not his fault but had a very bad injury & hasn't recovered to his previous best form. KJ needs to manage the situation & maybe rest Jack for the lesser games as his injury record isn't good. There's also the opportunity to play all 3 CBs in a 3-5-2 formation if all fit. It means we can change formations to suit the opposition along with 4-4-2 & his beloved 4-2-3-1 inherited from Paul Cook. As to who's been our best defender over the last 5 years I'd narrowly plump for Adam Webster slightly ahead of Jack as Not so injury prone & more versatile. both are excellent players though.