TrueBlueArmy Forums

"new seats, new electrical infrastructures and a longer-term decoration programme"

This OS story is a fucking windup surely?

The bit that pissed me off the most is "the club have decided". No they fucking haven't, they've had their hand forced with the threat of safety closures. That's not a decision, that's a reaction.

Whatever anyone says, the ground is not fit for purpose long term. One stand is almost 100yrs old, another 85 yrs plus, Milton End is a sh!thole . All the profiling, exits, seat widths and depths are not fit for purpose.

Why keep lobbing £m's at it, we ALL know 3 sides need demolishing and rebuilding and the ground moving northwards - another load of sticking plaster to keep the capacity as it is ffs !!

Pretty sure the capacity will be much closer to 20,000 than 21,000 !

If (and that’s a huge, huge if) we are in the Premier League in 4 years time we will likely have the smallest capacity ground in the Prem…….unless Bournemouth get promoted (or don’t move to a site for a larger ground).

I suppose it’s a sort of progress but, like so many other things Eisner, I regard it as a load of b*llocks, a super-rich individual indulging in his own particularly fantasy.

It took for a safety certificate for us to get this "progress" and the FE is NOT part of the plans.

I joked the other day that Prenton Park would be an upgrade but it will still be better than what we might end up with in four year's time:

The 90 degree rotation scheme should be a no-brainer, shifting the entire ground to the North and West. Build a big Milton Side on the extra space that's currently the penalty area to counter objections from the households behind Specks Lanes, use the spare 13m behind the Fratton End to turn it into a huge side, a new North Stand behind the goal similar to the Holmesdale Lane End at Palace and redevelop the South Stand as a smaller away end. The cost of sorting out the electricity substation (£2-3m?) is insignificant in the overall scheme of things for a project designed to last 50+ years. 

Historically, FP has had a capacity around 50% bigger than scum so a limited level of ambition should see FP expanded to a 40,000 capacity. Even a small club such as Brighton - never a hotbed of passionate support - has somehow ended up with ground holding 30,000. Newcastle have successfully expanded SJP in a more central location than FP so a significant redevelopment should be possible - fans need to pressurise Portsmouth City Council to keep the ground in the city and ensure they find a way of approving an ambitious expansion. If they fail to fully support PFC then kick them out of office.

Apart from the Fratton End, we've not had a newly-built stand since the 1930s and gone from a ground capable of hosting the World Cup in 1966 (but for a limited amount of ambition) to the Fratton Park we have today. Time for the powers that be at Pompey to challenge conventional thinking, relish the opportunity they have to create a unique modern, yet atmospheric ground, and leave a lasting legacy for the next generation of supporters.

(14-06-2021, 10:24 PM)Pompey_in_Derby Wrote: [ -> ]The 90 degree rotation scheme should be a no-brainer, shifting the entire ground to the North and West. Build a big Milton Side on the extra space that's currently the penalty area to counter objections from the households behind Specks Lanes, use the spare 13m behind the Fratton End to turn it into a huge side, a new North Stand behind the goal similar to the Holmesdale Lane End at Palace and redevelop the South Stand as a smaller away end. The cost of sorting out the electricity substation (£2-3m?) is insignificant in the overall scheme of things for a project designed to last 50+ years. 

Historically, FP has had a capacity around 50% bigger than scum so a limited level of ambition should see FP expanded to a 40,000 capacity. Even a small club such as Brighton - never a hotbed of passionate support - has somehow ended up with ground holding 30,000. Newcastle have successfully expanded SJP in a more central location than FP so a significant redevelopment should be possible - fans need to pressurise Portsmouth City Council to keep the ground in the city and ensure they find a way of approving an ambitious expansion. If they fail to fully support PFC then kick them out of office.

Apart from the Fratton End, we've not had a newly-built stand since the 1930s and gone from a ground capable of hosting the World Cup in 1966 (but for a limited amount of ambition) to the Fratton Park we have today. Time for the powers that be at Pompey to challenge conventional thinking, relish the opportunity they have to create a unique modern, yet atmospheric ground, and leave a lasting legacy for the next generation of supporters.

One of the key advantages of rotating the ground 90 degrees is that you can actually avoid the substation altogether. Retaining the current footprint is where you encounter the issue of sub-station relocation. I believe the figure is closer £6m!

In addition to the benefits already raised, the reorientation means the pitch can be enlarged and faces a North to South axis. Both of which is a UEFA requirement if we ever reach the Premier League again. More importantly though, the reorientation is logistically easier to achieve. The cost differential is about 5% from what I can remember after reading the Trusts report on stadium redevelopment 4-5 years ago.

Surely there is a longer term ambition to rebuild/rotate/relocate the stadium?
From what I've read on here this work is all required to keep us "open for business" at a cost of £2.5m per season.

It’s a holding pattern. People keep expecting shiny new toys all the time, whether it’s expensive players or a glitzy new ground. We’re in an uncertain economic environment having had over a year and counting of no crowds and people honestly expect the owners to fork out for a bold new build? I can’t see anything in the plans that rule out future bolder moves such as a new ground or reorientation.

The area has been identified,its B and Q across the road but NR and PCC haven't the budget to help Pompey with transportation/bridge costs. PCC want FP for redevelopment and B&Q want to off load their store/land. It would make perfect sense,it keeps PFC on the island ,and is within a new foot bridge of Fratton station.

There appears to be some concern on this message board about the future capacity ambition with that figure of 20,000 still attached to this latest redevelopment. But surely if we have any ambition of say top half Championship, even reaching out to the Premier, then with the potential support this area has demonstrated in the past at the merest hint of success then the capacity should surely be in the 25,000-30,000 region. We were often a tad short of 20,000 during the Jackett era for the big games.

If it is the B&Q site why don't PCC redevelop that site and we can turn Fratton Park 90°?

I believe the B&Q area is for commercial use only,whereas PCC could use FP for housing.

(15-06-2021, 10:59 AM)bluetagagain Wrote: [ -> ]I believe the B&Q area is for commercial use only,whereas PCC could use FP for housing.

So who is it that designated the B&Q area as ‘commercial only’ then?

PCC perhaps   ?

Probably :-)

The last time I checked Donna Jones was the strategic  stadium  consultant. Donna was leader of the Conservatives on Portsmouth City Council and at that time wanted to paint the spinnaker tower red. After it was pointed out to her that the City was by tradition  blue 100litres of red paint was discarded. She is  currently  the new Police and Crime Commissioner for Hampshire.Not sure she has any specialist knowledge of football ground development.. Eisner empire is on the road to nowhere.

(15-06-2021, 12:27 PM)BlueMonday Wrote: [ -> ]The last time I checked Donna Jones was the strategic  stadium  consultant. Donna was leader of the Conservatives on Portsmouth City Council and at that time wanted to paint the spinnaker tower red. After it was pointed out to her that the City was by tradition  blue 100litres of red paint was discarded. She is  currently  the new Police and Crime Commissioner for Hampshire.Not sure she has any specialist knowledge of football ground development.. Eisner empire is on the road to nowhere.

The Fib/Dems were the ones trashing the joint when I lived in Pompey, the city never did get the council it deserved. The city would be better served by a bunch of independents who live in the city and care about it, not a bunch of chances just in it for themselves. Party politics has no place in local government IMO.

The same Donna Jones who as leader of PCC wanted to bring the Grand Depart of the 2019 Tour de France to Portsmouth...

To be fair, I think Donna does live in Portsmouth and probably does have its best interests at heart.

It’s just the party allegiance bit that we could do without.

I take it that, as Police and Crime Commissioner, she no longer has anything to do with all things stadium.

I stand to be corrected on that of course.

Moan whinge, flippin Yank owners, what have they done for us, no investment, asset stripping, moan whinge.

Announcement of large capital investment over many years.

Moan, whinge, it's not enough, wrong sort of money, stands, seats, beer, toilets, capacity.

Have a day off.

Donna Jones was featured in Private Eye relating to Pompey. She was a director Of Victory energy a City Council owned energy supply company. Whilst she was a director of Victory energy Pompey received 100k sponsorship from that company. Donna Jones although connected to the club denied any knowledge of the deal. Later that year victory energy was wound up by the council with debts of 3.5 million which the taxpayers of Portsmouth will have to pay. To my knowledge the Eisners have never repaid the money to lessen the taxpayers burden. These facts have all been reported in the Portsmouth news. Make of the information what you will but my faith in the owners is tainted by these and other current events.

(15-06-2021, 02:37 PM)BlueMonday Wrote: [ -> ]Donna Jones was  featured in Private Eye relating to Pompey. She was a director Of Victory energy a City Council owned energy supply company. Whilst she was  a director of Victory energy Pompey received 100k sponsorship from that company. Donna Jones although connected to the club denied any knowledge of the deal. Later that year victory energy was wound up by  the council with debts of 3.5 million which the taxpayers of Portsmouth will have to pay. To my knowledge the Eisners have never repaid the money to lessen the taxpayers burden.  These facts have all been reported in the Portsmouth news. Make of  the information what you will  but my faith in the owners is tainted by these and other current events.

So, if I’m reading this correctly, Victory energy offered Pompey 100k and they accepted it.

Why the feck would the Eisners offer to repay that money?

They are running a football club ffs, they are not responsible for the failings of Victory energy are they? If anyone should pay anything it should be the directors of the failing company. If it was a limited company, the council wouldn’t be on the hook for the full amount anyway.

Looks like we are staying at Fratton Park long term...

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/footb...rk-3277531

Although there is no mention of reorientation, I can’t imagine why Eisner would spend millions on a new Milton End only to knock it down. Very short sighted if true. The current pitch size is too small and the orientation of East to West, both of which fail to meet UEFA guidelines. There is of course the nightmare challenge of the substation relocation. I can’t see how you can build a new North Stand without relocating it, since it is bang in the way. 

I would be interested to know what the plans are for the South stand? Surely that’s got to be rebuilt as well? Fans can’t be expected to watch 21st century football in cramped seats that are obstructed by stanchions?

Everything to do with Pompey lately seems to be a damp squid. Redevelopment is only to satisfy health and safety. Players leaving with no new real signing. New CEO just like DC talks the talk. Think about the fans as it’s us who can make or break the team.

20,000 capacity has to be a joke. FFS we've had over fifty in the old girl, surely we could aspire to 25/30. We're going backwards, Krap Nottarf!

Unlike many clubs we have major issues being caught between residential objections, network rail intransigence and council wranglings. This makes development so difficult. As a result, although on the face of it these are puny improvements to the ground, I am loathed to throw blame or abuse in the direction of the owners because I doubt anyone could overcome these problems quickly or easily.