+- TrueBlueArmy Forums (https://forum.truebluearmy.com)
+-- Forum: TBA forums (https://forum.truebluearmy.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Play Up Pompey (https://forum.truebluearmy.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: Rating Tornantes ownership so far (/showthread.php?tid=1553)
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - BilltheCat - 18-02-2022
Work out how much Eisner paid for PFC and Fratton Park and then tell us there was "no quick money to be made".
For at least two years he didn't even put his hand in his pocket!
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Pompeyg100 - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 06:39 PM)BilltheCat Wrote: Work out how much Eisner paid for PFC and Fratton Park and then tell us there was "no quick money to be made".
For at least two years he didn't even put his hand in his pocket!
How about you tell me how much money he’s made quickly then?!
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - dsmg - 18-02-2022
Surely keeping us alive during the lockdown must have cost em a lot.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - DeepBlue - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 06:39 PM)BilltheCat Wrote: Work out how much Eisner paid for PFC and Fratton Park and then tell us there was "no quick money to be made".
For at least two years he didn't even put his hand in his pocket!
Tornante paid (i think) 3.6m because that was what the PST paid and they weren't allowed any profit under the terms of their buyout from the administrators.
So yes, a paper theoretical profit was instantly made because by any measure the club was worth more than that, but that would have applied no matter who bought it. But no actual quick profit was made, becuase they did not sell it on.
And it is totally untrue to claim that they did not have to put their hands in their pockets for at least 2 years. We know for a fact, because it was in the published accounts, that the first thing Tornante did was put in a £10m fund ring-fenced for ground improvements.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Jizbag - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 07:19 PM)dsmg Wrote: Surely keeping us alive during the lockdown must have cost em a lot.
It was in their interest to keep us alive, otherwise they'd lose their investment.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - BilltheCat - 18-02-2022
"the first thing Tornante did was put in a £10m fund ring-fenced for ground improvements".
Indeed! And what happened to that £10m?
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - SouthseaBubble - 18-02-2022
I voted for the Tornante takeover and would do so again, albeit with reservations partly based on hindsight. I bought my share to help save the club when its existence was in extreme peril, and frankly I did not think too much about the long-term implications of being a football club owner (the idea of which I greatly enjoyed). I do know that I was not wealthy enough to bear liability for the investment needed to maintain the ground and climb back up the league pyramid. The Eisners have in my view kept pretty much kept to what they said they would do, so it is hard to complain too much, though I would have like speedier and more substantial redevelopment of FP. What has been most disappointing in my view has been the Academy. It never seemed to have a great reputation but actually as we know has produced some very successful players, Adam Webster, Matt Ritchie, Jed Wallace being just three. But as far as I recall, since the takeover not one player has come through the Academy and established himself as a reasonably regular first-teamer. Whether this can in any way be attributed to failings or lack of investment by Tornante, or poor Academy management and scouting, or is just coincidence I can't say. The outcome (or lack of) is the same. But at a time when we were consciously intending to use the Academy as part of our business model, the fact that the supply has dried up is very unfortunate.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Pompeyg100 - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 08:28 PM)BilltheCat Wrote: "the first thing Tornante did was put in a £10m fund ring-fenced for ground improvements".
Indeed! And what happened to that £10m?
Ground improvements.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - BlueArmy - 18-02-2022
There's no way that the stadium will stay as it is after the current health and safety works are completed.
Everyone associated with the club knows the capacity won't be high enough, and we will also need corporate facilities too.
It's a very slow frustrating process but all we can do is be patient as we have been for many years.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - BilltheCat - 18-02-2022
"Ground improvements".
Nah.
They moved it out of the account because it was sitting there doing nothing.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - DeepBlue - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 08:28 PM)BilltheCat Wrote: "the first thing Tornante did was put in a £10m fund ring-fenced for ground improvements".
Indeed! And what happened to that £10m?
It was spent on ground improvements and has now been added to with another £10m made available to cover the recently announced plans.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - DeepBlue - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 09:04 PM)BilltheCat Wrote: "Ground improvements".
Nah.
They moved it out of the account because it was sitting there doing nothing.
They moved it out to a better interest bearing account in the club name from where all the ground improvements have been funded as evidenced in the books. If you are basing your criticisms on that account move you should have informed yourself better.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - BilltheCat - 18-02-2022
"With £3m of that figure spent on Fratton Park maintenance during the opening two seasons, the remaining £7m was moved into a separate bank account".
It was all smoke and mirrors, DeepBlue.
"Pompey’s latest accounts, lodged at Companies House on Monday, show a £2.05m profit for the year ending June 30, 2019".
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - DeepBlue - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 09:01 PM)BlueArmy Wrote: There's no way that the stadium will stay as it is after the current health and safety works are completed.
Everyone associated with the club knows the capacity won't be high enough, and we will also need corporate facilities too.
It's a very slow frustrating process but all we can do is be patient as we have been for many years.
I think the 27000 planned will be enough. But we have to wait for the NS extension for that and there is no date for that yet.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - DeepBlue - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 09:44 PM)BilltheCat Wrote: "With £3m of that figure spent on Fratton Park maintenance during the opening two seasons, the remaining £7m was moved into a separate bank account".
It was all smoke and mirrors, DeepBlue.
"Pompey’s latest accounts, lodged at Companies House on Monday, show a £2.05m profit for the year ending June 30, 2019".
And your point is ? The ground funds are kept totally separate from the day to day operating funds which is where any profit went. E.g on Marquis & Harrison mostly.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - briefcase_wanchor - 18-02-2022
2/10 on the pitch - the squad is worse than that which they inherited post promotion and we have been treading water in what is a league of largely dire quality. No Academy to speak of. Aside from the playing squad, the Eisners are probably unable to make the managers role attractive to anyone even half decent. We used to be able to attract decent managers, regardless of the shit we were in. Seems we can't now.
5/10 off the pitch. Essential works only done with a barely improved Milton End in the offing. Failed to establish what was really required in terms of the ground before purchasing (it could all have been ascertained), hence underestimating the cost of the ground project and now using it as an excuse for lack of player investment. Our head is above water due, significantly, to player sales and a couple of good cup runs. Add to that appalling communication and embarrassing dress sense.
I read a lot of people saying many other clubs are about to implode and we'll be so well placed to take advantage of it. So who are all these clubs teetering on the brink that we will inevitably leapfrog? Not one has dropped off yet (Derby is not comparable) and the scaremongering stories of a year or two ago along these lines seem to have been merely that.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - BilltheCat - 18-02-2022
My point is that I've never trusted a word that Catlin ever spoke and, whichever way you look at it, Eisner's ownership has been a total sham.
Whilst everyone bangs on about ground improvements - quite rightly - the only real football success happened under community ownership 5 years ago.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - BlueArmy - 18-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 09:44 PM)DeepBlue Wrote:(18-02-2022, 09:01 PM)BlueArmy Wrote: There's no way that the stadium will stay as it is after the current health and safety works are completed.
Everyone associated with the club knows the capacity won't be high enough, and we will also need corporate facilities too.
It's a very slow frustrating process but all we can do is be patient as we have been for many years.
I think the 27000 planned will be enough. But we have to wait for the NS extension for that and there is no date for that yet.
27k would be OK. Was hoping for 30k plus though. But 27k is OK.
The club really need to give us something concrete on the North stand extension. They always give us excuses.
Its been going on long enough now we need proper plans and dates.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Pompeyloyal - 19-02-2022
Tornante are addressing the totally for way way ignored infrastructure - albeit slowly but clearly in a considered manner - doing crucial works with minimal impact on FP’s ground capacity too - clever approach
& all the while seemingly keeping us clear of debt
Just a shame Tornante didn’t get hold of PFC 35/40 or so years ago innit
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Cunninglinguist - 19-02-2022
Does anyone really believe we’ll never have a decent squad again?
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Rick Pumpkin - 19-02-2022
(18-02-2022, 10:40 PM)BlueArmy Wrote: 27k would be OK. Was hoping for 30k plus though. But 27k is OK.
The club really need to give us something concrete on the North stand extension. They always give us excuses.
Its been going on long enough now we need proper plans and dates.
I always find this argument fascinating when most games we couldn't even fill the park to capacity when we were in the Prem. Across those years I only held a ST for one season because of living and working abroad but there wasn't a single game where I couldn't get tickets in the week leading up to it, including the 4-1 derby.
Apart from brief periods when we've done well, Pompey has rarely averaged more than 25k since the 60s and with more distractions taking people away from the game that'd be the peak capacity I imagine Tornante would build the ground to. Mind you, we'll probably have to wait till 2050 for that to happen.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Hammie - 19-02-2022
I think you're right about the capacity Rick.
Get the disabled facilites better, which they are doing.
Then improve corporate. That I think will happen as and when they can get the North upper sorted, which is where the underground problems are an expensive issue. I would expect to see one of those hotel arrangements with pitch view rooms.
the existing plans will increase income as they will be able to sell alcohol in new areas
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Smirnoffexpress - 19-02-2022
Shock horror, I find myself in total agreement with BTC. Putting aside the fact that, under the present ownership most of us are likely to be long dead before we see another real quality squad at Fratton, capable of progressing substantially. The only thing I would give the Eisners credit for, is that they may have bankrolled us through the Covid epidemic. Something that might have been difficult as a fan owned club. Other than that, the speed of ground improvements has been slow. The biggest factor in the amount of work that can be done in the shortest period of time is cash. Cash fuels every construction stage of any project. With funding in place most construction programs can be condensed to fit most date critical targets. Looking from the outside in, it would appear that the improvements to the ground are drip fed. Suggesting that there is a long term program funded by operating profits not by start up investment. As for how much these improvements are costing, unless we are a party to looking at cost invoices, we have no idea wether the figures quoted to paint the Eisners in a good light are accurate or not.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - Ain’t got a Danny - 19-02-2022
The Eisners won’t be here long.
They’ve admitted the stadium presented more of a problem than they first thought. It took them well over 2 years before they produced a redevelopment plan.
The eat what you kill stuff and stadium health and safety improvements will leave a sustainable club in league 1. Then Eisner has a choice invest more money on the playing side including the academy or find outside investment or sell. The first two come with risk the third can bring in a modest profit but still a profit. If I was them Id take the money. Manadaric managed that.
The club management should have been looking for buyers as soon as the PST knew that they needed to. Were they? Only Catlin can answer that.
RE: Rating Tornantes ownership so far - briefcase_wanchor - 19-02-2022
The unanswered question is why does a billionaire make such a half-soaked investment. Your average billionaire football club owner/investor just goes for it, doesn't pussyfoot around with a slush fund for this that or the other. Especially when Micky boy is likely to be pushing up the daisies or losing his marbles within the next 5-10 years. He's no spring chicken is he. It's Eisner's mindset I don't think anyone gets. This has all the hallmarks of a lottery winner in fantasy land, not a billionaire.