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+--- Thread: Selling our best players to buy players (/showthread.php?tid=637)
Selling our best players to buy players - Pangus - 23-05-2021
It appears that the rationale for selling Curtis, as expressed in The News recently, is that according to the club we need to raise the cash to buy players. Whatever our opinions on Curtis his record shows that he has been a major contributor in the way of goals and assists since his arrival. Obviously he has ambitions to play in the Championship but I don't imagine we would get more than £2-3 million for him.
My point is that if we have what appears recently to be a dollar billionaire owner why do we need to sell our best player to raise funds to buy players? Surely if the owner has any ambition then it must be in his interests to be looking to provide the finance for a reasonable transfer budget?
Or am I missing somehting?
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - stayinupforever - 23-05-2021
Maybe it's like Kane at Spuds. Done as much as he can at Pompey so we may as well cash in.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - BigSmokeBlue - 23-05-2021
We may think Curtis is worth is £2-3m. However, rumours are we have accepted £1.5m from as yet an unnamed Championship club in a cut price deal.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - slayer - 23-05-2021
Owners don't want to saddle the club with debt which cannot be met by turnover.
Shame they don't invest in the infrastructure so we can yield a bigger income.
Every season they just buy and sell players is another year wasted.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Wightblue - 23-05-2021
I would have thought that £1.5 million is about right for Curtis, a lot of potential but with a difficult temperament, whether he can be ‘trained on’ is the question prospective buyers will be asking themselves.
The Eisners have stated time and time again that Pompey can only eat what they kill, Eisner has no intention of using any of his $3.2 fortune on buying players for Portsmouth FC., hence we need to sell to buy (but plus, I trust, a kitty of £2 million or so from Season Ticket sales, Sponsorship and the like).
Just as important, he will almost certainly look to recover with all speed any extra funds over budget he has put in to support Pompey through Covid, might mean a very lean year in terms of transfer funds and salaries.
So important that The Cowleys are as good at ‘adding value’ when it comes to strengthening the team as they claim. No more Marquis, Morris, Cannon type transfers and frees that are not worth their salaries.
Going to be difficult for them if we are always shopping in the bargain basement, sure there are some uncut diamonds down there.....but there’s even more rubbish and not too many non-league players make an impact on the first team in their first year.
Tougher League 1 next season, we need to be better than recent seasons to mount a serious challenge, I hope we are not in for a two year promotion project from The Cowleys, fours years in L1 has been too long, the fifth will be grim unless we are in a really challenging position.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - slayer - 23-05-2021
Crowds will hit core levels of around 11,000 max next season if we don't challenge. We need to hear and see evidence that steps at being taken to turn us into a Championship club off the pitch so we can become one and stay one on it.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Wightblue - 23-05-2021
Oops ! Eisner’s fortune is $3.2 Billion not $3.2 as I posted !
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - DeepBlue - 23-05-2021
(23-05-2021, 01:58 PM)BigSmokeBlue Wrote: We may think Curtis is worth is £2-3m. However, rumours are we have accepted £1.5m from as yet an unnamed Championship club in a cut price deal.
Pre-covid we might have got 2-3m for Curtis. Now, I'll be very surprised if anyone pays more than 1.5m. The world has changed financially for football and too many fans seem to expect everything to carry on as it was before. It won't except in the premiership.
From Curtis's perspective it is the right time to move on and test himself at a higher level, and fair do's to him he would have stayed here had we got promotion.
It's going to be a completely new team for us next season, with all of our better rated players moved on. But the fact remains those players had their chances here and have under-achieved so it's time for a fresh start.
I'll still be disappointed when Whatmough goes though ... as fans we invested a lot of emotional energy in his recoveries and I must admit I thought the risk of injury would stop anyone taking him on and he would stay here and become captain and a one-club stalwart, but that does not look likely now.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Smirnoffexpress - 23-05-2021
We keep trading down. We sell the best players and invariably invest something in players that have made us worse. Without hope of improving what is the point?
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Wightblue - 23-05-2021
The Eisners must be pretty confident (and with good reason) that the Fratton Faithfull will still buy loads and loads and loads of Season Tickets, the Pompey fans exceptional loyalty regardless of their teams performances keeps the Eisners in their comfort zone.
Albert Einstein* is credited with saying that Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again..but expecting things to get better !
The last four seasons of The Pompey fans trooping up to Fratton Park and buying Season Tickets and merchandise seems to match Einstein’s definition of Insanity
* I wasn’t there when he said it or ever had a chance to ask him if it was his opinion.....but it seems to fit the bill.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - briefcase_wanchor - 23-05-2021
Just taking a step back from whether you agree with the Eisners approach or not; it strikes me as strange that a billionaire from thousands of miles away has the appetite for what amounts to a "play thing" in a sport and country he has little in common with. What is in it for him and his family? He must have better ways of utilising the time that he has on Pompey. Even pre-Covid, buying a league 1 football club without investment was never going to be a simple or easily fruitful venture - especially PFC with its infrastructure baggage. Why did he really do it if he wasn't at some stage prepared to take a risk?
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Mystic Meg - 23-05-2021
Prediction Pompey will be going in backward motion for the new season, firstly Catlin has had a sideway move into one of the American owners other companies given a lovely title, if the owners think he was such a good businessman why take him out of a business that needs all hands to the deck, Reason it’s a way of getting rid of him.
Next the Cowleys employment, despite doing ok at Lincoln, unemployed in football for quite a while unlike our former manager (Orient) they do not have the experience to manage a large fan based club like Pompey, very good at talking themselves up, telling us how hard they work, fans will have them out by Christmas.
The claim of a £700,000 a month loss because of COVID with the owners covering the costs, absolutely rubbish, the British Government has contributed more than the American owners with furlough, rates cuts and massive grants not forgetting the money from the sale of players. Youth team, reserve team and background staff all paying the cost to reduce overheads for the owners.
The Vision for the future, Cowleys going to raid the none league clubs for players, what does this tell you about the ambition of the owners, the so called billionaires, they stole the Club for a pittance, have had their money back many times over and still owning the ground who’s natural value has trebled in the last 5 years, they have no allegiance to the people of Pompey they will walk away from PFC as soon as the best offer to fill their pockets comes in, leaving us fans once again to the next unscrupulous ownership.
So the new season starts and we all buy our season tickets because we love the Club, but once again we must prepare for even greater disappointment than the last one, we are a club that’s going into a new season run on the cheap, year 5 what has changed? prepare for underachieving even possible relegation
look at the clubs around us in our league, not making excuses about wage increases or decreases, they are actively putting squads together, PFC waiting for loan players as the owners won’t commit money, we have to sale the very best of our players to raise money to buy much lesser players.
Allegedly we are a club without debt, very credible but at what cost? Another rubbish underachieving season in the lower divisions, sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate, something our owners will not take the risk of doing, let’s hope the new CEO stands up to them and not just being spoon fed by the owners like the last one was, transparency was the key word used by Catlin from the beginning, what a joke!
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Wightblue - 23-05-2021
Briefcase - don’t get it either and he’s not a spring chicken either !
I wonder just how wedded to the Pompey purchase his family is ? I well remember Jim Gregory buying Pompey and then dying not so very long after.
And then we found out that his son Martin had opposed the purchase and, when he inherited the club, making out lives a misery until the day he sold it (although I seem to remember Westwood &Co doing their best to make Martin Gregory’s life a misery as well)
Pure speculation on my part but what if The Eisner family are just humouring Michael and will get shot of us ASAP given an opportunity to do so or just starve us of cash like Martin Gregory did (including player sales that made no sense).
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - DeepBlue - 23-05-2021
Here's a question for everyone seemingly unhappy to support a club just because they are in the top half of league one .....
If we were still a fan owned would you be happy with our current position ? I would, I'd be ecstatic if by some miracle we had kept the ground open by selling everyone of any value and at the same time managed a consistent top half finish. That would be quite some achievement for a club in so few years from starting again.
So why does having owners who have made it quite clear that the playing side of the club was on the the same footing as under fan ownership, but would spend £10m on the ground, make any difference to how happy we are ?
The expectation that we have some divine right to promotion just because we used to be a regular second (or first) tier club is in danger of putting so much pressure on the management that it will contribute to stopping it happening. We criticise the fans of teams like Sunderland for that attitude, so it really annoys me to see Pompey fans doing the same.
Would we rather go back up by spending beyond our means or by building a young improving team ?
The latter for me every time, and the Cowleys look and sound just the sort of young forward-thinking managers capable of doing that given time, but I fear the pressure to sack them will be intense if we do not start the season well. And every time you sack a manger it is back to square one.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - slayer - 23-05-2021
Don't agree with that. Eric has shown consistent interest. Other brother not bothered in the slightest it would seem though
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Gerry Hatrick - 23-05-2021
The point about handing over the reins to Tornante was to take the club on to the next level.
Eisner has done nothing that the Trust couldn't have done and yet has had the resources to make a difference. Yes, brick by brick and all that but this strategy hasn't worked so it's time for a rethink. Without a change some could be forgiven for thinking that was never the strategy at all. That their hope was of Jackett getting promotion without them putting much in and then cashing in before having to invest in a Championship squad. And since Plan A hasn't worked out, the evidence with or without the Covid factor has been to slash and burn.
Our modern semi in the capital has been traded down for a run-down terrace in the sticks and we're getting the cheapest tradesmen around to repair the leaky roof and dry rot.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Hammie - 23-05-2021
the plan would have worked if our change from young and improving to buying in a few expensive semi flops had paid off. It does feel that if Kenny had been somewhat more canny with the money he made from the cup runs we would have be a lot closer to promotion than we ended up.
I'm still struggling to understand just why this team collapsed so spectacularly after Christmas.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Wightblue - 23-05-2021
OK Deep, so tell us what you deem to be an acceptable and reasonable time for Pompey to achieve Championship status (and not just as one season wonders), say season 2022/23 or 2023/24 or when ?
What do you deem to be an acceptable season for The Eisners to have expanded Fratton Park capacity to say 25,000 (or whatever increased capacity you deem appropriate).
Without increased capacity how can we ‘kill/eat more’ and thus have bigger budgets/ potentially a much better, promotion winning squad.
What season would be acceptable to you for The Eisners to achieve the holy grail of Premiership Football ?
I appreciate that many, perhaps most, fans perhaps believe that The Eisners and their underlings have been the saviours of Pompey and that without them we would have certainly ceased to exist.
To my mind we have simply spent the last four seasons in something akin to suspended animation and with the possibility that 2021/22 will be little different.
Your posts suggest you see things much more optimistically and I am anxious to read how your optimism will translate to improvements on the pitch and ground in measurable terms ie the seasons in which the long suffering fans will see genuine improvements in squad and League and increased capacity.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Smirnoffexpress - 24-05-2021
I would be more than happy being in this division if i could see real progress. Progress is not measured solely by achieving promotion. Progress would be building a team each year that plays the right way and with a few additions each year could get better over time. We are contemplating yet another close season of plugging gaps with the sort of cast offs that have already failed to shine at this level. How the hell is that progressing? We should be hanging onto our better players at this level and adding a bit of extra quality to the squad each year. That a club our size cannot hold onto its better players at this level and has to sell them to fund squad building is unacceptable.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - bluetagagain - 24-05-2021
We’ve no divine right to championship or premiership football. The main thing the Eisners got wrong was hanging onto KJ for at least 2 seasons. KJ bought bad with the money he was given , nearly £2M on Harness and Marquis!!!!! and not strengthen midfield or replacing sold players with anything resembling half decent. As regards the enlargement of FP, we sometimes don’t fill what we have, plus with no ‘outside’ investment ( NWR PCC etc), it’s not going to happen soon. IMO it’ll be a move away from FP. We should’ve been in the championship 2 seasons ago if Kenny hadn’t blown it with his wonderful ‘ pressing attacking ‘brand of football , hardly the Eisners fault. I would imagine if and when we do get promoted then I’m sure the playing /transfer budget will increase to what’s required . Yes it would be great to go on a spending spree and play in a wonderful updated or even new stadium, but we are where we are. Blame the last manager for non progress on the pitch and squad not the Eisners.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Mystic Meg - 24-05-2021
Everything that has been spent on playing personal has been self generated from the club itself, the money Kenny spent on bringing useless players was from the sale of our best players, very similar to what is happening now, don’t be fooled by the mighty owners they just stand as guarantees, if it’s true that PFC are loosing 700,000 a month think how much the club self generates in normal times, even with improvements to the ground spent from the coffers of PFC we still show a profit, as fans we are desperate to have owners that will lead us to success, these owners are the wealthiest we have ever had but who have contributed in terms of their billions the lowest.
Do you really think these people have allegiance to the people of Portsmouth, not a chance this is purely a fun investment for the family which like Mandric will only ever show them a profit when they tire.
The true investor in Pompey won’t come in and talk about how wonderful the antiquated Fratton Park is and the history, it will be someone who builds a new stadium, like Southampton, Brighton, and soon to be Bournemouth, are the Americans updating the Milton end this close season? Not a chance, why because the club has to generate the money and not them for the rebuild.
Are we any better off from when the club was fan owned, have we achieved anything since, the last promotion was when the fans owned the club, don’t be fooled by the American PR they will be gone without a thought for us, we will be left holding our hopes and dreams, still in the same old ground with a tiny capacity.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Pangus - 24-05-2021
Mystic Meg, you are spot on with what you say. The fact that the Eisners won't wholly fund the development of the Milton End is all the evidence we need. There is obviously no prospect of Portsmouth City Council and British Rail making significant investments to support that development, so we have no chance of extending the capacity or providing decent provision for the disabled at that end.
The sale of Curtis will be another major signpost for me of their lack of commitment.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - teeftwo - 24-05-2021
Septic Peg - Such a load of old rubbish about the Eisners. The only money to be made from football is in the premiership. The most money to be made is to get there under a sustainable model.
And a fun investment - get real. These are hard nosed business people, not someone out for a jolly. This is what a well run business looks like, success built over years and years.
Your examples -
Southampton - a club saddled with huge debt
Brighton - It took over a decade from when they left to Goldstone (1997) to finally get to the Amex (2011)
Bournemouth - Fined for breaching Financial Fair Play rules and unable to gain promotion despite their imense financial backing (acording to you)
Stop bleating on about fan owned. It served a purpose and now it's gone. Some of the rabid fan owned crowd are the same as those who deride remainers - you need to take your own advice and move on.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Mystic Meg - 24-05-2021
(24-05-2021, 11:05 AM)Pangus Wrote: Mystic Meg, you are spot on with what you say. The fact that the Eisners won't wholly fund the development of the Milton End is all the evidence we need. There is obviously no prospect of Portsmouth City Council and British Rail making significant investments to support that development, so we have no chance of extending the capacity or providing decent provision for the disabled at that end.
The sale of Curtis will be another major signpost for me of their lack of commitment.
The trouble being Pangus as fans we are so desperate to have a successful club, we all thought we hit the holy grail with these owners, unfortunately we have been duped not just by the owners but by the out going CEO who seems to be the only one coming out of the situation with his nest well and truly feathered,
How can you be told if you want to spend to improve the team you have to sell your best players, Curtis and Jack, we should be complementing these players not with unknowns, look at the way they are handling the young lad Stanley, real potential, it’s terrible, he will go onto achieve but will be replaced by a lesser footballer, things are a foot at Fratton Park, in navel terms the first rats are deserting the sinking ship, once again we are sailing into uncharted waters let’s hope those eventually deserting us don’t take with them all the life boats.
RE: Selling our best players to buy players - Mystic Meg - 24-05-2021
(24-05-2021, 11:12 AM)teeftwo Wrote: Septic Peg - Such a load of old rubbish about the Eisners. The only money to be made from football is in the premiership. The most money to be made is to get there under a sustainable model.
And a fun investment - get real. These are hard nosed business people, not someone out for a jolly. This is what a well run business looks like, success built over years and years.
Your examples -
Southampton - a club saddled with huge debt
Brighton - It took over a decade from when they left to Goldstone (1997) to finally get to the Amex (2011)
Bournemouth - Fined for breaching Financial Fair Play rules and unable to gain promotion despite their imense financial backing (acording to you)
Stop bleating on about fan owned. It served a purpose and now it's gone. Some of the rabid fan owned crowd are the same as those who deride remainers - you need to take your own advice and move on.
Two teef
Another Fan just happy to tread water, but yes they are hard face Buisness men, and hard faced Buisness men expect good earnings on their investment, we’re are we now what actually have we achieved, a debt free club with no ambition, are you excited at the way we are developing, are you excited about the prospect of loosing good players and replacing them with none league players, get with reality or perhaps you like the lack of ambition.