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+--- Thread: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? (/showthread.php?tid=676)
Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - David_Kemp78 - 09-06-2021
And No money for players...I fear an assett stripping going on soon at our club. Its fact Yanks not at all intrested in our club.
Please Sell Up.!
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - BigSmokeBlue - 09-06-2021
They are trying to, but be careful for what you wish for!
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - Tomsk - 09-06-2021
It would be much more fun with Sulaiman al Fahim in charge
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - DeepBlue - 09-06-2021
(09-06-2021, 09:58 AM)David_Kemp78 Wrote: And No money for players...I fear an assett stripping going on soon at our club. Its fact Yanks not at all intrested in our club.
Please Sell Up.!
Putting £10m into an organisation debt-free is a funny way of asset stripping.
They might well make a profit if and when they sell, but that is very different from asset stripping. To asset strip you have to take money out of an organisation, not put it in.
The fact that Tornante know how to run their businesses to make a profit is surely a good thing not a bad one.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - Jizbag - 09-06-2021
(09-06-2021, 12:52 PM)DeepBlue Wrote:(09-06-2021, 09:58 AM)David_Kemp78 Wrote: And No money for players...I fear an assett stripping going on soon at our club. Its fact Yanks not at all intrested in our club.
Please Sell Up.!
Putting £10m into an organisation debt-free is a funny way of asset stripping.
They might well make a profit if and when they sell, but that is very different from asset stripping. To asset strip you have to take money out of an organisation, not put it in.
The fact that Tornante know how to run their businesses to make a profit is surely a good thing not a bad one.
It is unless they let that business stagnate which seems to be what they're doing atm.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - teeftwo - 09-06-2021
David - You presumably know that Tornante is an umbrella investment company consisting of several smaller companies which are of themselves independent business operations running within their own parameters and that money does not flow freely between the various organisations.
Your figure of 1.3 billion refers to, I assume, the (three month old) news that the Topps Trading Card company is planning to go public and that the valuation of that share issue is $1.3 billion. So unrelated to PFC.
The IPO is planned for later in the year so it's not like Tornante currently has a slush fund of $1.3 Billion
Relies on all shares in the IPO being taken at the price assumed to generate $1.3 Billion
After issue the Topps company will presumably offer dividends so profit from Topps to Tornante will be reduced.
The IPO is in the form of a SPAC (happy coincidence) and at the end of it the actual money Tornante will make will likely be closer to $700 million. When purchased the Topps company cost around $350 million so the profit is more likely to be around £350 million.
Before taxes etc.
You're only around $1 billion out.
So apart from being wrong in every single aspect, what is your point?
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - teeftwo - 09-06-2021
(09-06-2021, 10:19 AM)BigSmokeBlue Wrote: They are trying to, but be careful for what you wish for!
Where is your evidence Tornante are trying to sell the club?
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - slayer - 09-06-2021
Asset stripping?
What assets?
They'd be £11M down if they walked tomorrow.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - Pedalo_menders - 09-06-2021
Teeftwo that’s a very long winded way of saying they have a trousered 300,000,000 for a years work.
If the Eisners knew anything about football they would be investing into the academy, the stadium expansion (not the patch job) and the playing squad. They have done none of these things.
Furthermore, they aren’t even backing the manager in his first transfer window. How the fuck is Cowley supposed to build a team if he isn’t even permitted to retain the players he wants to keep?
The assets they have stripped so far are all the players they have sold & let go and replaced with freebies and teenagers. It’s a joke.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - Hammie - 09-06-2021
I sometimes wish we could just turn all commenting off until two weeks before the season start. Tet match two tomorrow, I'll have something else to moan about for the best part of a week
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - Pedalo_menders - 09-06-2021
Lol where’s the fun in that Hammie?
I think it’s fair to question the Eisners when they are basically rolling in it and can offset any tax on profit into investments into Pompey. They are keeping us on bread & water whilst they’re treating themselves to a Double Whopper with Bacon & Cheese.
I’d be less annoyed with the playing squad if they showed actual progress/investment on the infrastructure but they’ve done nothing in that regard either.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - DeepBlue - 09-06-2021
(09-06-2021, 03:20 PM)Pedalo_menders Wrote: Lol where’s the fun in that Hammie?
I think it’s fair to question the Eisners when they are basically rolling in it and can offset any tax on profit into investments into Pompey. They are keeping us on bread & water whilst they’re treating themselves to a Double Whopper with Bacon & Cheese.
I’d be less annoyed with the playing squad if they showed actual progress/investment on the infrastructure but they’ve done nothing in that regard either.
Nothing in that regard other than providing a training ground, spending a few million on keeping the ground open (which was why we needed them), spending thousands on ground plans and negotiating with PCC & BR, and backfilling the lost income during Covid.
People's opinion of them seems to be based on the fact they are are rich and we would like them to give us more money than the £10m they promised. This despite the fact that they specifically said they would not do that. Far better to develop the club as a self-sustaining entity rather than one that cannot exist without handouts, or even worse the wrong sort of investment that just puts the club into debt.
Forcing them out of the club with online abuse would be a big mistake IMO unless we got very lucky with who might be attracted to buy it. We don't have a good track record at that.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - Pedalo_menders - 09-06-2021
Erm I think you’re totally missing my point Deep. We have an owner who is:
A flush with cash and
B: An asset in desperate need of investment.
The sensible business decision would be to reinvest the profit from Topps into Pompey to increase its value and reduce the tax burden. Both are Tornante businesses.
I posted the link a couple of days ago where Eisner said he would be investing to get us to the premiership. He is absolutely not doing what he said he would do. All this brick by brick bollocks came AFTER they bought us.
And P.S. I have never once said Eisner Out. I am not anti Eisner, I’m Anti their strategy, because it’s shit, it’s not working and we are falling further and further behind our competitors. How the fuck do Brighton look down on us now?
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - ForeverPompey - 09-06-2021
(09-06-2021, 12:52 PM)DeepBlue Wrote:(09-06-2021, 09:58 AM)David_Kemp78 Wrote: And No money for players...I fear an assett stripping going on soon at our club. Its fact Yanks not at all intrested in our club.
Please Sell Up.!
Putting £10m into an organisation debt-free is a funny way of asset stripping.
They might well make a profit if and when they sell, but that is very different from asset stripping. To asset strip you have to take money out of an organisation, not put it in.
The fact that Tornante know how to run their businesses to make a profit is surely a good thing not a bad one.
Completely agree.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - David_Kemp78 - 09-06-2021
(09-06-2021, 01:31 PM)teeftwo Wrote: David - You presumably know that Tornante is an umbrella investment company consisting of several smaller companies which are of themselves independent business operations running within their own parameters and that money does not flow freely between the various organisations.So what have the Yanks incvested in..? They put 10 mill in to our club which is a drop in the ocean in terms of football..no financial backing for a new manager..and a lick of paint at FP ...no more thsn the PST could do..Eisners have bern stringing us along and continue to do so. Wait while we fight relegation after September onwards. The club has not progressed in past 4 years..! If anything slowly sliding backwards...
Your figure of 1.3 billion refers to, I assume, the (three month old) news that the Topps Trading Card company is planning to go public and that the valuation of that share issue is $1.3 billion. So unrelated to PFC.
The IPO is planned for later in the year so it's not like Tornante currently has a slush fund of $1.3 Billion
Relies on all shares in the IPO being taken at the price assumed to generate $1.3 Billion
After issue the Topps company will presumably offer dividends so profit from Topps to Tornante will be reduced.
The IPO is in the form of a SPAC (happy coincidence) and at the end of it the actual money Tornante will make will likely be closer to $700 million. When purchased the Topps company cost around $350 million so the profit is more likely to be around £350 million.
Before taxes etc.
You're only around $1 billion out.
So apart from being wrong in every single aspect, what is your point?
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - bluebollox - 09-06-2021
I'm neither a happy clapper nor anti tornante. But I do wonder quite why they're here, what are they hoping to achieve & how it equates to what Michael Eisner presented @ The Guildhall. Before anyone jumps on that last sentence I'm referring to the numerous pics of shiny new stadiums & endless mentions of new Brittany's & Justin's plus "Infrastructure improvements". Meanwhile our disabled fans will again from August have to sit in the rain!!
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - Jizbag - 09-06-2021
I think they've just got bored and the novelty has worn off. Likewise I'm afraid. Invest in the team and new ground or fuck off!
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - DeepBlue - 09-06-2021
DK "no more than the PST could do".
That's where you are so wrong. The PST knew that at least 3 million was needed to be spent on the ground in the next couple of years or else capacity would be slashed. They did not have half a million let alone 3 million, and the bill increased to 5m or so since then. That is why the board decided to sell, and that is why the members voted to approve the sale. And that has been the benefit of Tornante being here.
As promised the football side has been left to be largely self-sustaining, although you could argue the Covid support is the football side as it has been paying the wages.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - briefcase_wanchor - 09-06-2021
How do they generate the interest to spend the requisite time and effort on what is, to them, such a small venture? The one thing I didn't like about selling to them was they would be owners of a play thing who are based abroad. To move this club forward I would have thought they need to live and breathe the place for a while, not just fly in as part of a larger business trip when it suits.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - teeftwo - 10-06-2021
David,
I think the first thing you should do is admit you were totally wrong about the 1.3 billion. Your total fiscal ignorance doesn't really add any weight to your subsequent rant on a totally different subject.
If you'd been paying attention and did some research (always useful, it means you can find out things called facts) you'd know that there has been an awful lot spent on infrastructure just to enable the ground to stay at capacity. Hardly just a "lick of paint".
The Eisner's have brought stability to the club. We have consistently posted good accounts over the period of their tenure bringing a much need respite from decades of mismanagement.
Now I appreciate you want great football, promotions and so forth but in order to do this correctly you have to build good foundations. Just coming in and throwing money at the problem never works as inevitably at some point the money dries up. The club has to become self sustaining. They were clear about this 4 years ago and nothing has changed.
There is nothing of real value to asset strip from Portsmouth FC, not to a company with the size of investments Tornante has. Your whole position on this is based in emotion and not in reality. Take a step back, look at and understand the past 4 years accounts, appreciate the updates done to the ground to pass safety inspections. There were an awful lot of things wrong when they took over and it just takes time to rectify many years of neglect and lack of investment in a sustainable manner.
With the appointment of the Cowley's, a new CEO and a new Academy head this year you cannot accuse the owners of standing still. They've identified where change needs to happen and are taking steps to effect it.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - slayer - 10-06-2021
I do agree with the view that they've got bored. They fucking vanished in January and haven't properly come back since.
Where my patience has run out is with this utter bullshit over the railway bridge.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - kindofblue - 10-06-2021
I just want to watch a team that plays with some passion, a little skill and a lot of pride in the shirt - win lose or draw. I think there’s a delusion that Pompey are a ‘big’ club in the way that other clubs that have fallen on hard times like Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday are. Pompey will struggle in the Championship until/unless the ground can sustain a bigger crowd. In the meantime I’m not going to criticise Tornante for failing to spaff money the club hasn’t actually earned in pursuit of the kind of ‘glory’ that did the club down in the very recent past. Let’s see how the Cowley’s can frame a team in their own image and whether the new CEO can create a lean and mean machine that other clubs might start admiring.
RE: Tornante 1.3 Billion Profit..? - slayer - 11-06-2021
Yep bang on. Fratton Park is basically an old and shit version of Tranmere Rovers' Prenton Park by the sea.
Yes them who were recently non-league.