[Gerry Hatrick]

Parallels with Hillsborough or chancers trying to get in to the Champions League Final on the cheap?
Footage of Liverpool fans being pepper-sprayed after refusing to clear a gate for a disabled fan to get out doesn't look good. Of course, the timid UK media are not going anywhere near that angle. The truth will emerge after a series of enquiries, I suppose.

[DeepBlue]

Parallels with Hillsborough or chancers trying to get in to the Champions League Final on the cheap?
Footage of Liverpool fans being pepper-sprayed after refusing to clear a gate for a disabled fan to get out doesn't look good. Of course, the timid UK media are not going anywhere near that angle. The truth will emerge after a series of enquiries, I suppose.

Finding one or two examples of Liverpool fans misbehaving - and I'm sure there's many more - as a result of the chaos they found themselves in must never be used as an excuse by those responsible for the chaos, whose jobs it was to avoid such chaos. Namely UEFA & the French police.

[Hammie]

will be interesting to see if or how many false tickets were circulating and whether fans paid over the odds to get them etc
maybe the finals will have to be at the other end of Europe from the participating clubs home

[Pompeyg100]

They have never and will never do anything wrong.

[Hammie]

Whereas Millwall fans have never done anything right
Leeds, Cardiff, Chelsea and us on the margins.

When we had a mutual ban from Millwall most fans accepted at as a fair enough reaction.

The wonderful Liverpool fans as you say have never been in the wrong and have certainly never accepted that anything might be their fault.

[DeepBlue]

Whereas Millwall fans have never done anything right
Leeds, Cardiff, Chelsea and us on the margins.

When we had a mutual ban from Millwall most fans accepted at as a fair enough reaction.

The wonderful Liverpool fans as you say have never been in the wrong and have certainly never accepted that anything might be their fault.

I think all but a tiny minority accept the blame for Heysel. 

But lies were proven to have spread about them at Hillsborough, lies which many still quote as reasons for their blame there. And they have had a lot of praise for their restrained behaviour on Saturday.  Always a few bad apples in both of those scenarios of course.

[Smirnoffexpress]

Judging Saturday in isolation. The French Old Bill did what they do for a living. IE dish out violence to whoever they are sent to dish out violence to and it is unacceptable. Innocent men, women and kids getting tear gassed and batoned! Shame on them.

[exgaffer]

Judging Saturday in isolation. The French Old Bill did what they do for a living. IE dish out violence to whoever they are sent to dish out violence to and it is unacceptable. Innocent men, women and kids getting tear gassed and batoned! Shame on them.

Dead right, the French Old Bill did act disgracefully, casual use of batons, tear gas and pepper spray when there was nothing like a riot going on. They were spraying young and old indiscriminately it seemed.

I can’t help feeling that if that had been Millwall, Leeds or even Pompey fans the reporting would have been slanted very differently though.

[Pompey_in_Derby]

The reality is that a combination of factors led to the issues in Paris.

Fake tickets were doing the rounds a week or so before the match with police forces in the North West fully aware of the situation and they lifted a few of the sellers, persuading others to head off to France to target ticketless fans once they arrived there.

Then, there's the Scouse 'tradition' of attempting to enter a ground without a ticket - been going on for decades - and not helped by the successful breaches at Wembley for the Euro semi and final.

UEFA don't care about the fans - everything's about money for them - and they clearly failed to prepare properly given the likelihood of thousands of ticketless fans turning up on the day.

The Paris stadium has bottlenecks in places surrounding it and, without proper stewarding, congestion was inevitable. Where there is stewarding and security checks, the French often manage to cock things up and delays are nothing new - similar issues at Euro 2016 led to many England fans entering grounds midway through the first half. 

The French coppers have a reputation of acting before they think, not helped by aggressive locals who also enjoy attacking visiting fans. I was in Marseilles for the Tunisia riot, and also witnessed issues at matches with England in Toulouse and St Etienne - when you need a police presence they seem to disappear, giving the local thugs free rein to attack anyone or anything English (e.g. cars with GB plates)! Bizarrely, the only time the French coppers took things easy was when Pompey played in Le Havre - a few riot police kicked off at one of the pubs before the game, but otherwise they left us alone!

Then there's the issue of the behaviour of the Scousers themselves. While the majority appear to have been patient and law-abiding, there were clearly some who were hell-bent on causing trouble. Shades of Hillsborough in my opinion though it's not pc to question their behaviour that day! I know Forest fans who were there and some of the Scousers pelted the Forest fans with a barrage of missiles all along Penistone Road before the game. To my knowledge, no Forest fans were represented at the public enquiry despite there being more Forest fans at Hillsborough that day - a bizarre decision but dictated by access to and from the South and East which meant they were given the much bigger Kop End rather than the Leppings Lane End!

So, summing up, there was no single cause for the problems, just an unfortunate combination of numerous avoidable issues.

[scouse]

Always the victim.

Never my fault.

[exgaffer]

Always the victim.

Never my fault.

The compo lawyers will be licking their lips that’s for sure.

All that PTS should be worth a few bob.