[brian bromley]

I love the way you idiots chuck the gammon label around, when one of you must  be well into his 80's by now, organs well preserved no doubt.
The putin lover aint no spring chicken either.

You all should learn a little about brexit, in itself brexit was not wrong, the problem was cameron the coward having set the stage ran away and allowed the clown we now call our PM to negotiate the worst deal in history.

Who else could have agreed to have customs checks on goods traveling internally in the UK?

[Jezzer]

I love the way you idiots chuck the gammon label around, when one of you must  be well into his 80's by now, organs well preserved no doubt.
The putin lover aint no spring chicken either.

You all should learn a little about brexit, in itself brexit was not wrong, the problem was cameron the coward having set the stage ran away and allowed the clown we now call our PM to negotiate the worst deal in history.

Who else could have agreed to have customs checks on goods traveling internally in the UK?

Don't blame the "idiots" Brian. It's the gammon who got us to where we are today. I'm glad you can see the idiocy of the whole thing, even if you haven't quite worked out yet just who is responsible for the whole shitshow.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

“…and you haven't my question about the non-paying countries in their skewed budget”

There was no question Ex, it was just a rant - go back and look.

And ‘Brian’, go ahead and give us your wise words on how we can provide border checks on goods entering and exiting the EU/UK without jeopardising the GFA and destroying any chance of a US trade agreement (which we’re now desperate for). It’s a circle that can’t be squared.

Bunch of dins.

[scouse]

[brian bromley]

I love the way you idiots chuck the gammon label around, when one of you must  be well into his 80's by now, organs well preserved no doubt.
The putin lover aint no spring chicken either.

You all should learn a little about brexit, in itself brexit was not wrong, the problem was cameron the coward having set the stage ran away and allowed the clown we now call our PM to negotiate the worst deal in history.

Who else could have agreed to have customs checks on goods traveling internally in the UK?

Don't blame the "idiots" Brian. It's the gammon who got us to where we are today. I'm glad you can see the idiocy of the whole thing, even if you haven't quite worked out yet just who is responsible for the whole shitshow.

You seem to have missed my point there jezzer half the people on this board slinging the gammon tag  around are in fact in the gammon age group themselves. And the vote to stay/leave was not so clearly defined bu age as this board imagines.

What is certain is we have an awful government led by a liar which history will judge very badly.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

‘Brian’, gammon isn’t pegged to age, its a mindset. If you can hold an optimistic outlook on a progressive future it’s quite possible to age gracefully without falling into a mean-spirited, selfish and angry hole.

Btw, regarding this awful government, who’s box did you cross? Most of us saw it coming beforehand.

[exgaffer]

I love the way you idiots chuck the gammon label around, when one of you must  be well into his 80's by now, organs well preserved no doubt.
The putin lover aint no spring chicken either.

You all should learn a little about brexit, in itself brexit was not wrong, the problem was cameron the coward having set the stage ran away and allowed the clown we now call our PM to negotiate the worst deal in history.

Who else could have agreed to have customs checks on goods traveling internally in the UK?

Don't blame the "idiots" Brian. It's the gammon who got us to where we are today. I'm glad you can see the idiocy of the whole thing, even if you haven't quite worked out yet just who is responsible for the whole shitshow.

You seem to have missed my point there jezzer half the people on this board slinging the gammon tag  around are in fact in the gammon age group themselves. And the vote to stay/leave was not so clearly defined bu age as this board imagines.

What is certain is we have an awful government led by a liar which history will judge very badly.

There are not sufficient numbers of ‘gammon’ in the UK to win a national referendum Jezzer, your number skills would appear to be on a par with those of Diane Abbott.

Tufnell your economics ‘skills’ are way off too, trade deals, while desirable, are not vital in order to trade profitably. WTO rules are quite sufficient.

As for the Belfast Agreement, which I assume your little ‘I’m in the know’ ‘GFA’ is referring to, it is only at risk because of the EU, not the UK. Customs checks to protect their precious single market can be done electronically. As for the Yanks getting involved, a lot of them have a romantic, distorted view of Ireland, so they are incapable of making a rational decision.

We should trigger Article 16 immediately. If the EU want to start a trade war, that will be down to them. We are a global trading nation and will do just fine.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Scouse was right. It’s a waste of time talking to you Guff. You take talking bollocks to NextLev. Wrong about absolutely everything. How you’ve got this far without accidentally killing yourself is a mystery for the ages. Maybe when stagflation begins to cut into your fixed income you’ll have to adjust your thinking.

But for now, the sun’s out, coffee on the stove, hammock in the trees and later, a game on normal telly - I’m off for a lazy weekend. Ta-ra.

[Smirnoffexpress]

“Gammon” ! There’s that word again! It’s usually used by intellectual spastics.

[exterminator]

“…and you haven't my question about the non-paying countries in their skewed budget”

There was no question Ex, it was just a rant - go back and look.

I never rant Tuffers Duffers, I just ask plain questuons and give you plain facts. In the past I have asked you several times about the non-budget contributing counties of European Useless   ...... 

You can't answer the question because there is no justification as to why they shouldn't contribute.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

"I just ask plain questuons and give you plain facts. In the past I have asked you several times......  You can't answer the question"

Said without any sense of irony whatsoever.

[exterminator]

"I just ask plain questuons and give you plain facts. In the past I have asked you several times......  You can't answer the question"

Said without any sense of irony whatsoever.

Have you been taking lessons from your  loony leftie politicial mates Duffers ?

Avoid the question and talk about something completely different ............ pathetic.

[brian bromley]

"I just ask plain questuons and give you plain facts. In the past I have asked you several times......  You can't answer the question"

Said without any sense of irony whatsoever.

the famous duffers modified post, what did it hide we wonder...

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Avoiding the question? The Bank of England have calculated that Brexit is costing us £440 million every month, why not answer the question we’ve been asking for years and years - what economic benefits have we actually achieved?

So go ahead BrexitLoons, if answering questions is so important, there’s a queue - so get in line.

[exterminator]

Tuffers you Duffer in 2018 the UK contributed £9,770m to the EU budget so your 440×12= £5,280m.
So in other words we are already some 4,500m if not considerably more better off by now by not paying European Useless anything, that is a huge achievement !!

Now answer my question about contributions to the skewed budget.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

My apologies Ex, that should have been £440m per week, not month - so that would be 440x52=£22,880m - and you thought £9bn was a lot. And that £440m is at the low end of calculations. Goldman Sachs puts it at £600m a week, and others put it as high as £800m a week.

Now, there's a queue of unanswered questions, but the one that's been avoided for years now is: What economic benefits have we actually achieved?

[Smirnoffexpress]

Hi, optimistic and progressive here, optimistic that we have a great future and progressive in as much as Brexit has steered us away from certain totalitarianism and back towards being an independent country with the sanctity of the individual as a core value. If you want to see mean spirited and angry, go look in the mirror.

Independence, take it, use it, it’s yours.

[Bluestow]

Hi, optimistic and progressive here, optimistic that we have a great future and progressive in as much as Brexit has steered us away from certain totalitarianism and back towards being an independent country with the sanctity of the individual as a core value. If you want to see mean spirited and angry, go look in the mirror.

Independence, take it, use it, it’s yours.

Out of interest, what are you doing with your new found independence, that you couldn’t do before?

[Smirnoffexpress]

For a start, winding it into snowflakes like you and your ilk.   Brexit, the physical action of divorcing ourselves from the EU was always only ever going to be the first step. Step two is to start finding a way of ridding ourselves of our own political elite who are every bit as corrupt as their counterparts in Brussels. Do that and we can then, also, reclaim our country.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

But Smirns, Brexit was a land-grab by the elite. All MEPs are voted in via proportional representation, and MEPs are less likely to be 'owned' by corporate donors, or at the very least diluted by a broader spread of corporate donors. Your vote consolidated the power of the elite, rather than reclaim our country we've handed it over to them - the brexit vote was a vote for a new feudalism.

You only need to look at a couple of the bills currently making they're way through parliament, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill and the Voter ID Bill. They're restricting our rights to protest and instituting obstacles between the working class and the ballot box. What you thought was a new dawn was actually a sunset.

[Smirnoffexpress]

No,no,no...........this why we will always find so little common ground in this debate. I see the EU, in its current form, as the enemy and you see those that voted for Brexit as the enemy! “MEPs” May well have been voted in using PR, that is just another smokescreen. A federal Europe was the end game. An end game that would eventually see the EU as one “nation”. Either you do not realise this or you are happy to support it. I was not. Nationhood is the glue that holds us together, without it we have fuck all.

[exgaffer]

But Smirns, Brexit was a land-grab by the elite. All MEPs are voted in via proportional representation, and MEPs are less likely to be 'owned' by corporate donors, or at the very least diluted by a broader spread of corporate donors. Your vote consolidated the power of the elite, rather than reclaim our country we've handed it over to them - the brexit vote was a vote for a new feudalism.

You only need to look at a couple of the bills currently making they're way through parliament, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill and the Voter ID Bill. They're restricting our rights to protest and instituting obstacles between the working class and the ballot box. What you thought was a new dawn was actually a sunset.

Obstacles to the ballot box? Really?

And what are they then?

As for protesting, there is no way the government can stop that. However, it should not be possible for a small minority to override the wishes of the majority by disrupting lives.

The main point is that Brexit gives us the power to remove those who govern us, something we cannot do if we are part of the failing EU experiment.

A Europe of fully independent countries is a far better idea than a Federation ruled over by a gravy train Commission ffs.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Obstacles to the ballot box? Really?

And what are they then?

"The types of ID to be allowed are set out in section 5. These include passports, photographic driving licences, biometric immigration documents and some concessionary travel passes. Free voter cards will be made available for those without any other form of photographic ID."
Commons Library

So yeah, obstacles. They've already redrawn boundary changes to work in their favour, and now they've designed obstacles designed to put off the people who the tories don't want to vote.


And as for protesting:

Part 3: Increased powers for police to impose restrictions on peaceful procession, assembly, and protest, which would expand the circumstances in which police can impose conditions on a range of activities. For example, religious festivals, community gatherings (from Notting Hill Carnival to firework nights, such as those in Lewes), football matches, LGBT+ Pride marches, vigils/remembrance ceremonies, and so on. The Bill also removes the need to knowingly breach police-imposed conditions in order to commit an offence and introduces a broad statutory offence of public nuisance with a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. These changes risk breaching rights to freedom of expression and assembly and the requirement for legal certainty.
Justice.org

Smirns says enjoy our new freedoms and independence, and the state says: "The Bill also removes the need to knowingly breach police-imposed conditions in order to commit an offence...".

Seems pretty clear that the last thing Brexit gives us is the power to remove those that govern us - we've just given them greater powers to increase their control. Stop listening to what they're saying and concentrate on what they're doing.

[exgaffer]

Obstacles to the ballot box? Really?

And what are they then?

"The types of ID to be allowed are set out in section 5. These include passports, photographic driving licences, biometric immigration documents and some concessionary travel passes. Free voter cards will be made available for those without any other form of photographic ID."
Commons Library

So yeah, obstacles. They've already redrawn boundary changes to work in their favour, and now they've designed obstacles designed to put off the people who the tories don't want to vote.


And as for protesting:

Part 3: Increased powers for police to impose restrictions on peaceful procession, assembly, and protest, which would expand the circumstances in which police can impose conditions on a range of activities. For example, religious festivals, community gatherings (from Notting Hill Carnival to firework nights, such as those in Lewes), football matches, LGBT+ Pride marches, vigils/remembrance ceremonies, and so on. The Bill also removes the need to knowingly breach police-imposed conditions in order to commit an offence and introduces a broad statutory offence of public nuisance with a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. These changes risk breaching rights to freedom of expression and assembly and the requirement for legal certainty.
Justice.org

Smirns says enjoy our new freedoms and independence, and the state says: "The Bill also removes the need to knowingly breach police-imposed conditions in order to commit an offence...".

Seems pretty clear that the last thing Brexit gives us is the power to remove those that govern us - we've just given them greater powers to increase their control. Stop listening to what they're saying and concentrate on what they're doing.

So you are basically against people having to identify themselves in order to vote then? Anything that tightens up voting to those who are actually entitled to vote is fine by me. Everyone entitled to vote has the forms of Id mentioned, so that is hardly an ‘obstacle’.

I have some sympathy with you over the suppression of peaceful protest though and will need to look into that more fully before making a decision.

I am currently more concerned with the proposed ‘online safety’ legislation, any increase in censorship should be strongly resisted. We’ll have a 1984 style ‘misinformation bureau’ next, the US is already going down that road, incredibly.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Thing is Guff, everyone has the right to vote. But not everyone has a passport, not everyone has a driving license, not everyone has some kind of photo to verify who they are, and currently, they don't, legally, need one - so to say you now need photo verification in order to continue your right to vote is an obstacle. It will lead to a constituency of people that won't vote because of it. And the tories most probably have data to say that those people were likely to never vote for them in the first place. They're gaming the system.

Here's the protest bill:
Police, crime, sentencing and courts act 2022