[exgaffer]

Thing is Guff, everyone has the right to vote. But not everyone has a passport, not everyone has a driving license, not everyone has some kind of photo to verify who they are, and currently, they don't, legally, need one - so to say you now need photo verification in order to continue your right to vote is an obstacle. It will lead to a constituency of people that won't vote because of it. And the tories most probably have data to say that those people were likely to never vote for them in the first place. They're gaming the system.

Here's the protest bill:
Police, crime, sentencing and courts act 2022

Thanks for the link Tufnell, I’ll have a look.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect someone to identify themselves in order to vote. If people can’t be arsed to get a free Id then they shouldn’t be voting anyway. The vast majority of people already have photo Id, so I see no problem with this. I have always thought our voting system is wide open to abuse, so any tightening up gets my support. If people want to vote they can, it’s just that simple.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

It may not seem unreasonable, but it is an obstacle - and its a big enough obstacle to stop many thousands of people enjoying their legal right to vote. Voter turn-out is already a problem for what is supposed to be a national democratic process, this is only going to decrease turn-out.

Police electoral fraud data:
2018 - one conviction
2017 - one conviction

In 2017, 46.8 million people were registered to vote and 68.8% actually voted - a shade under 32.2 million people - one conviction for electoral fraud. Where is the need for photo ID, if not to suppress voter inclusion?

Electoral fraud data

[exgaffer]

It may not seem unreasonable, but it is an obstacle - and its a big enough obstacle to stop many thousands of people enjoying their legal right to vote. Voter turn-out is already a problem for what is supposed to be a national democratic process, this is only going to decrease turn-out.

Police electoral fraud data:
2018 - one conviction
2017 - one conviction

In 2017, 46.8 million people were registered to vote and 68.8% actually voted - a shade under 32.2 million people - one conviction for electoral fraud. Where is the need for photo ID, if not to suppress voter inclusion?

Electoral fraud data

If people value their right to vote, they won’t mind getting photo Id will they? In the vast majority of cases they will already have it. If you offered someone a free holiday, they wouldn’t say ‘I can’t go because I don’t have a passport’ would they? They’d get a fucking passport (if the ‘working from home’ passport office could get their finger out of course). Similarly they would get a driving licence if you offered them a car. 

As for convictions, that is a very thin argument.

If we were talking about rape, you’d say that the low conviction rate was down to failings on the part of the police and/or CPS. Strangely, you use the low conviction rate as proof of low electoral fraud.

Are the Labour Party that worried about the commitment of their supporters? If they are, I suggest they help their potential voters to get Id sharpish.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Guff, it was one conviction from a vote of over 32 million people - that's not low, statistically that's beyond insignificant, it would even show up as a mite on a dust mote. What it shows is that the tories are distorting the electoral system every which way to their advantage. Your support of the tories is as blind as your Brexit support. You and Lil'Mix are like peas in a pod - swapped your brains for an internet connection.

[Hermann's_no_hermit]

Guff, it was one conviction from a vote of over 32 million people - that's not low, statistically that's beyond insignificant, it would even show up as a mite on a dust mote. What it shows is that the tories are distorting the electoral system every which way to their advantage. Your support of the tories is as blind as your Brexit support. You and Lil'Mix are like peas in a pod - swapped your brains for an internet connection.

Unusually I actually find myself with Guffs on this one. Just because there have been hardly any convictions doesn't mean there hasn't been electoral fraud. I also don't see the problem in having some form of voting ID. I do, however, think there are far bigger things to worry about than this, particularly the increased powers to stop peaceful protest.

[scouse]

If there is widespread electoral fraud, how come the gammon always win?

Perhaps that IS the reason?

Hmmm...

[exgaffer]

If there is widespread electoral fraud, how come the gammon always win?

Perhaps that IS the reason?

Hmmm...

Ha ha ha Scouse, coming from Liverpool you will be very familiar with left wing corruption in the notoriously dodgy Liverpool City Council.

The completely unhinged Left always lose, except in unhinged places like Liverpool   , because their policies are fantasy land and most rational people can see that.

Electoral fraud is rife in communities that originate in countries where electoral fraud is the order of the day. Communities which are dominated by Imams and the like, who tell their flock how they should vote and take control of the voting, quite often using the incredibly lax postal voting system, which also needs reform.

None of this gets dealt with by the authorities, for the same reason the grooming gangs are handled with a light touch, the fear the authorities have of being labelled ‘racist’.

All able bodied people should attend an actual polling station in person, with Id and without minders. Postal votes should only be allowed in exceptional circumstances.

If the left is confident in its policies and in its appeal to the electorate, this should hold no fears for them.

The fact that it does speaks volumes.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Ah, its a sop to Islamophobes - I see now. I was thinking that the populist view of the day was to celebrate our now-independent democracy and make it easier for everyone to vote, but I wasn't seeing it from the racist gammon viewpoint, my mistake.

[brian bromley]

just need nazis for a full house...

[exgaffer]

Ah, its a sop to Islamophobes - I see now. I was thinking that the populist view of the day was to celebrate our now-independent democracy and make it easier for everyone to vote, but I wasn't seeing it from the racist gammon viewpoint, my mistake.

Hilarious and pathetic. No argument, so you feel the need to bring out the ‘phobe’ bollox.

Why am I not surprised by this?

[Tufnell_Chimes]

“Electoral fraud is rife in communities that originate in countries where electoral fraud is the order of the day. Communities which are dominated by Imams and the like, who tell their flock how they should vote and take control of the voting, quite often using the incredibly lax postal voting system, which also needs reform.

None of this gets dealt with by the authorities, for the same reason the grooming gangs are handled with a light touch, the fear the authorities have of being labelled ‘racist’.”

Guff, you don’t even realise how far-right your views are, do you. What are you afraid of?

[Smirnoffexpress]

“Far right”...........no such thing, it’s just another label you milk sops use to denigrate those that hold alternative opinions to yourself. As for “islamaphobia” you can fuck off with that one as well. It is used to suppress criticism of an ideology, an ideology that detests everything most of us hold dear. That ideology is facist in so many ways, yet those plums, like yourself, that would decry imaginary Nazis,facilitate its rise in the West.

[scouse]

So is there any such thing as "far left"? I hope so...

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Smirns, I think there's a supermarket in Buffalo that would disagree with you.

[BilltheCat]

“Far right”...........no such thing, it’s just another label you milk sops use to denigrate those that hold alternative opinions to yourself. As for “islamaphobia” you can fuck off with that one as well. It is used to suppress criticism of an ideology, an ideology that detests everything most of us hold dear. That ideology is facist in so many ways, yet those plums, like yourself, that would decry imaginary Nazis,facilitate its rise in the West.

Muslims are lovely.

[brian bromley]

Ever watch NDTV billy? Muzzies not popular on there.

btw did I tell you Ahmed moved up to Liphook, nice area and a better school for his girls, I miss them especially the eldest she had just reach the stage  where we could have a sensible chat, shame shes up there now. Ahmed popped in for a chat the other day his dad is in his old house across the road from me,not to hot in English but seems a decent sort.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Weird how many of the Tory MPs being arrested for rape/sexual assault are the ERG Brexity-types. No doubt Guff will be ramping up his condemnation of Diane Abbott anytime soon.

[Smirnoffexpress]

Tuffers, what part of the U.K. is Buffalo in?

Billy boy, there are millions of lovely Muslimsyou soppy coont. My gripe is against the ideology, an ideology that when used as a political tool is at total odds with Western Culture. That said, certain groups that have recently arrived in Western Europe do seem to bring some negative baggage with them that may well be outside that ideology!

And leastly, Scouse ffs, “hard left”  a term most used by polytechnic revolutionaries to gain kudos in the common room!

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Soz Smirns, when you wrote: “That ideology is facist in so many ways, yet those plums, like yourself, that would decry imaginary Nazis,facilitate its rise in the West.” I didn’t realise you meant Devon.

[Smirnoffexpress]

Devon remains relatively untouch by the March of Islam, Western civilisation cannot say the same.

Ps. And what sensitive soul has been deleting some of my posts?

[exgaffer]

Devon remains relatively untouch by the March of Islam, Western civilisation cannot say the same.

Ps. And what sensitive soul has been deleting some of my posts?

It’s only a matter of time Smirns.

I still don’t get why the left supports an ideology that embraces all the ‘phobias’ going and is clearly misogynistic. There is no logic to it.

They would have no problem criticising Catholicism or Judaism, but somehow one faith gets a free pass.

Personally I think all ‘faiths’ are incompatible with a modern society and any time they conflict with the law of the land they should be slapped down sharpish.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

I have no problem criticising Islam Guff, I treat it the same as every other religion, - but you're not going after the religion, you're going after the people who you suspect are muslim, and by association, who you jump to believing are muslim fundamentalists - but how can you know this? do you have a geiger counter specially-built to detect fundamental islam? Probably not, you probably look at the mode of dress and extrapolate your prejudice from there.

The muslim people I know appear to be following the pretty much the same trajectory as the jewish people I know (and even catholic people I know) - they're much less orthodox than their parents, who in turn are much, much less orthodox than their parents too. I think western civilisation is safe from extreme islam - its the christian fundamentalists we need to fear, they're embedded.

[Smirnoffexpress]

As a general rule the Muslim Fundamentalists tend to give themselves away. They generally go out of their way to kill and maime people they disagree with, they also have a tendency towards preaching death and destruction to all and sundry. Not farkin hard, is it?

As of 2020 there were 43,000 on the Governments watch list, not all are Islamic but most are! And still people like yourself underplay it.

[Tufnell_Chimes]

Well it does seem quite farkin' hard for you Smirns. Hard for you to twig that its a minority that are doing these actions. A minority.

Do you actually believe 43k people are ready to blow up a bus? Really?
Pretty sure that during the Troubles in the 1970s the UK government probably had every catholic in Northern Ireland on a watch list.

Steve Baker is more dangerous than all of them put together.

[Smirnoffexpress]

Open your eyes, look at France, Holland and Belgium.

Anyway enough of this sheite, on my down west. No internet at the gaff and if reports of an overweight gammon causing havoc on the Fal and Helford rivers come through. Panic ye not, ‘tis only me playing with boats!