Being happy win or lose is not the same as not wanting to see improvement. Its just that the improvement I would like to see does not involve constant changes in ownership or manager ... you have to give someone time in a job, not give up without a fight after just 12 games, especially whn in spells in those 12 games they have shown they are capable of much better.
As for Eisner, yes I'm happy that he put 10m into the ground and yes I'm happy that he bailed the club out with more millions during Covid, and I'm happy that he would rather run the club in a sustainable way. That doesn't mean I don't want to see us doing better but sometimes sticking to a plan with resilience is a better way to improve than throwing everything away and starting again every 5 minutes.
(17-10-2021, 06:42 AM)briefcase_wanchor Wrote: [ -> ]I've never fathomed the Eisners ownership of PFC. Still don't.
Whichever way you look at it, it doesn't add up. If it's about real estate, there are hundreds of better/easier ways worldwide to make your bucks. If its about bragging of ownership of an English club with some history, why run it without ambition? You just end up building huge resentment and reinforcing the clueless Yank/soccerball stereotype.
Spot on. Why?
Nobody has answered that question yet.
The other 'why' question is why is it always us?
The why is fairly obvious- it adds to his business profile and reputation as a prudent owner.
I think the 'why's can be explained in terms of they thought it would be much easier than it is. They were overconfident about their methods without understanding L1 football.
Extending Kenny contract, allowing him to sign shit players on 3 year contracts, tweeting we've had good January windows etc. It just shows that they were not humble enough to appreciate there are things they don't yet know about how football functions at this level.
I certainly hope the Eisners have learnt from this. A lot of time and money was wasted with Kenny. I lay a lot of that blame with Catlin as he was the link between owners and operations.
What's done is done though. 2 more years of L1 at least. But as Deep says, you don't want to chop and change every 5 mins, however tempting it is as a fan. No-one can be happy with the season so far but if you didn't see it coming, you must have been living under a rock.
Not talking about chop and changing every 5 minutes, just when it clearly isn't working. It stopped working with Kenny after 2 seasons, it doesn't work with the Cowleys. Don't let a freak result against Sunderland in the rain convince you, we've been shocking this season and we also had 10 games last season plus cup games, it must be at least 25 games. It's crap, you know it, I know it, time to change it.
Yeh agreed its crap. I just don't think changing the manager now is a good idea (even if the Eisners wanted to). My main argument is that DC has not had enough time to bring in the players he needs. I'd agree that he (and the recruitment team) made some large blunders in the summer though.
I'm just saying this season was always going to be a write off. Give DC a full season to get his ideas across and 3 transfer windows. Then judge him start of next season.
Getting rid of DC now would just mean the next guy has a bunch of shit players he didn't sign, that he has to get rid of. (And probably at a big financial loss).
(17-10-2021, 08:56 AM)scumslayer Wrote: [ -> ]Just to make sure I understand correctly.
If we win, happy days.
But if we lose, sack the board?
That's about the size of it, but you left out the bit about whingeing and blubbing like a fanny.
(17-10-2021, 04:55 PM)Tomsk Wrote: [ -> ] (17-10-2021, 08:56 AM)scumslayer Wrote: [ -> ]Just to make sure I understand correctly.
If we win, happy days.
But if we lose, sack the board?
That's about the size of it, but you left out the bit about whingeing and blubbing like a fanny.
Lot of whingeing when Jackett was here but he stayed, that worked out well then didn't it!
Cowley, Jackett, Cook, Awford, whoever... I bet the same ones were whingeing and blubbing about something like fannies.
The really annoying thing is that our owners are doing it in the right way. But being compared to a raft of owners who risk their club's entire future on a gamble to get in the Prem. Derby crashed already, how many more mid size clubs have to go bust before something sensible is done about football finance?
Are they really doing things in the right way for owners with means though?
The only thing that PST ownership could not sensibly achieve was large scale investment in the infrastructure of the club - for example to rebuild & expand the stadium.
With their resources the Eisners could have started process that on day 1, and sensibly funded it out of other cash flow with the understanding that said investment would be repaid long term by owning an asset with higher turnover and increased value. If you have the initial assets to fund a rebuild of the North Stand and extension of the Fratton End, you can certainly put together a realistic business plan to show it works.
Instead, they have hidden behind "eat what you kill" (which under PST ownership was our only possible approach). To be clear, I do not want them to be spunking squillions on players, because that way lies bankruptcy, without the developed revenue streams to fund it. PFC did not have those revenue streams in 2017 & after four years of the Eisners still don't.
With their resources, their failure on this so far (and let's be honest, tarting up the Milton doesn't really move the dial on any of this) is hugely disappointing. It certainly prompts the question; why get involved in PFC if you are not going to use your vast assets (in a sensible way) to drive the business forward?
I wonder how they would respond if say Michael & Eric were asked on this? Would they be reasonable, or get a bit tetchy?
The other thing the PST could not do was medium size investement in the ground. At the time of the decision to sell a 3m requirement was looming just to keep the ground open. That was beyond the capability of the fan ownership model so the 10m that has been spent was way beyond it.
Also the PST could not have funded the club through the Covid crowd-free season without major contributions from fans to see nothing. And these are the same fans that whinged when asked to pay just £25 to keep their seats and go into a draw for tickets when available.
Have fans forgotten that we got to pay £25 to keep our ST. Many clubs took the full amount to keep them going.
(16-10-2021, 07:31 PM)Wightblue Wrote: [ -> ]The trouble is both Brentford and Brighton are owned by real fans of their clubs
Brentford owned by Matthew Bentham, life long fan, Oxford Graduate with a degree in Physics, outstanding career in finance (Chief Executive of Bank of America) then went on to developer a hugely successful gambling business which has made him 100’s of Millions of £ Sterling. Invested over £100 million in Brentford and uses a Prediction ‘algorithm’ to predict the likely success of player purchases with very considerable success.
Brighton owned by Tony Bloom, another life long fan, Manchester University Grad with a degree in Maths, career in finance and then into gambling and, like Bentham, fabulously successful (his killing on France winning the 1998 the World Cup still stands as a record successful gamble). Has invested £300 million in Brighton.
Both have built new stadiums, attend almost every game and are committed to their clubs every bit and more as their fans.
Compare that with Pompey and their owner, Chalk and Cheese doesn’t even begin to describe it !
Eisner blew $250 million of Disney shareholders cash on the Ducks and The Angels with nothing to show, was ready to invest another $100 million of Disney funds into The CSKA Moscow Red Penguins ice hockey team until the Russian Mafia got involved.
In no way a Pompey fan and not prepared to invest any of his $3.7 Billion in Pompey although he seems willing and able to spend shareholders funds on sporting ventures.
As I say, Chalk & Cheese !
The Common Denominator about both owners is gambling! Both club owners had a vision & they built new stadiums which is what ME should have done but it woul havre meant him dipping in his pocket! I'm Not sure if I believe the ground heritage argument more like it was the cheaper option by far to stay put & negotiate with BR & PCC. I'd love to get my hans on the: Prediction ‘algorithm’. As Brentford have fed their own growth with transfer fee money & brought in High Quality cheaper replacements.
Ways for PFC to progress:
1) ME to Dip in his own pocket - Extremely Unlikely.
2) Start an U/23s Academy team - Will take 4-5 years to bear fruit but definitely needed.
3) Get a Decent Main Sponsor prepared to pump in a significant amount of money with about 6 smaller sponsors - University of Portsmouth - Great Deal for them International TV & Press Coverage - Low income for the club - Marketing Director & team to target every large business in Hampshire to identify possible targets. I've just done a quick exercise & found about 6 Companies to approach inc: Starling Bank ( Business Online Banking expanding rapidly ), Zurich Insurance, Panattoni ( Largest industrial retail property developer in Europe ), Storck ( Massive Confectionary Co ).
4) Get a New Owner - By No means an easy task but again need to identify targets now via an Agent to be approached for possible changeover end of the season.
5) Get a new Manager - Linked directly to No.4
(18-10-2021, 09:32 AM)SW4Blue Wrote: [ -> ]Are they really doing things in the right way for owners with means though?
The only thing that PST ownership could not sensibly achieve was large scale investment in the infrastructure of the club - for example to rebuild & expand the stadium.
With their resources the Eisners could have started process that on day 1, and sensibly funded it out of other cash flow with the understanding that said investment would be repaid long term by owning an asset with higher turnover and increased value. If you have the initial assets to fund a rebuild of the North Stand and extension of the Fratton End, you can certainly put together a realistic business plan to show it works.
Instead, they have hidden behind "eat what you kill" (which under PST ownership was our only possible approach). To be clear, I do not want them to be spunking squillions on players, because that way lies bankruptcy, without the developed revenue streams to fund it. PFC did not have those revenue streams in 2017 & after four years of the Eisners still don't.
With their resources, their failure on this so far (and let's be honest, tarting up the Milton doesn't really move the dial on any of this) is hugely disappointing. It certainly prompts the question; why get involved in PFC if you are not going to use your vast assets (in a sensible way) to drive the business forward?
I wonder how they would respond if say Michael & Eric were asked on this? Would they be reasonable, or get a bit tetchy?
Fantastic post summing up my thoughts exactly. It just doesn't make sense to be taking so long to do things with the clubs infrastructure when you have so many resources available. We are absolutely gagging for investment off the pitch and could (should) be the biggest club south of London.
We are used to punching ABOVE our weight. It feels like we are being fed bread & water.
Have we really punched above our weight since about 1955?
Perhaps for a few years leading to one bankruptcy (or another, we've gone bust at at least three times)or another, but not in an average season.
Wimbledon did for a time. Accrington too.
Not sure we have, hardly ever.
(18-10-2021, 03:58 PM)Hammie Wrote: [ -> ]Have we really punched above our weight since about 1955?
Perhaps for a few years leading to one bankruptcy (or another, we've gone bust at at least three times)or another, but not in an average season.
Wimbledon did for a time. Accrington too.
Not sure we have, hardly ever.
When Harry was Manager we certainly punched above our weight won the F.A. Cup once & it should have been twice but missed ot due a penalty miss in the Semis against Chelski. We were in contention for a top 4 finish until the wheels came off.
Lot of bedwetting going on.
(18-10-2021, 05:55 PM)mikey393 Wrote: [ -> ]When Harry was Manager we certainly punched above our weight won the F.A. Cup once & it should have been twice but missed ot due a penalty miss in the Semis against Chelski. We were in contention for a top 4 finish until the wheels came off.
None too surprising that you got all that wrong.
Actually, it was KPB who missed the penalty……in the Final !
Uncle Avram (not ‘Arry) worked a minor miracle getting Pompey’s bits and pieces squad to the final in the first place, I loved the semi against Spurs whose fans thought they just had to turn up to walk it and how their end of Wembley emptied at warp speed when we went 2-0 up…cue the Fire Drill !
Now, on that day we really did punch way above our weight !
(18-10-2021, 10:32 AM)DeepBlue Wrote: [ -> ]The other thing the PST could not do was medium size investement in the ground. At the time of the decision to sell a 3m requirement was looming just to keep the ground open. That was beyond the capability of the fan ownership model
I'm not sure about that Deep. The last time I saw Ashley, he was crystal clear that the £5m upcoming expenditure that Catlin dropped on us as "unexpected" in the run up to the vote (and one can only assume this was important in convincing a majority to approve the sale), was already factored into the club's budget. Perhaps not item by item, by certainly in general terms & amounts.
Moving on from that though, I'm not sure how we would have survived the pandemic, but I'd view that as a separate matter. Nobody, not least the Eisners, was including such a thing in their calcs. One other thing on the pandemic and funding, while there could be a view that without the Eisners, we'd have gone bust because of Covid, it is surprising that no other clubs in div 3 or 4 have gone bust as a result of the pandemic. So, maybe as one of the few, pre-Covid profitable clubs, we might have survived, albeit with a financial lean needed on the shareholders or perhaps the bank. You never know, as a fan owned club perhaps those of us in the fortunate position to be able to, might have stumped up their season ticket cash in full for 2020 & 21, just to help keep the club going.
(18-10-2021, 09:07 PM)Wightblue Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, it was KPB who missed the penalty……in the Final !
Uncle Avram (not ‘Arry) worked a minor miracle getting Pompey’s bits and pieces squad to the final in the first place, I loved the semi against Spurs whose fans thought they just had to turn up to walk it and how their end of Wembley emptied at warp speed when we went 2-0 up…cue the Fire Drill !
Now, on that day we really did punch way above our weight !
Winning the Cup in 08 was great, but wasn't beating spurs (& 'arry) in the 2010 semi at least as good?
SW4
Yes, nailed on, a great day out and, having suffered the Spurs fans gloating along Wembley way, the victory was made all the sweeter…..it was just a pity that they had slunk away before we left the stadium.
Our first goal scorer, Frederick Piquionne, was last sighted playing for Mumbai City and our second, KPB (whose penalty emptied the Spurs part of the crowd), ended up at Hertha where his career started.
I have an empty feeling that we may have to wait a long time before another day like that although the Final was another fantastic effort by the team and Pompey’s supporters - if only KPB had slotted the penalty home and Drogba hadn’t buried his free kick, we might have witnessed a monumental turn-up.
It seems our best chance of Wembley this season will be the Play-off Final but I’m not holding my breath.
Harrow Borough is at least very close to Wembley.
Forever
Wow ! Just think of it, a replay at Harrow Borough ! Capacity 3,070, not quite Wembley but, as you point out, pretty close.
Pompey with about 300 fans (and a huge committee of vultures circling above Danny Cowley’s head), the media with headlines already written (Proud Pompey humbled).
But, have no fear, Michael Eisner will move heaven and earth to be there with us should it come to pass.